Satellite view of South America

Here is the much awaited blog post to consider our options for the location of our 2015 Latin American DrupalCon. While we have looked at the pros and cons for two locations, we want you to weigh in and tell us what you think!

Before I launch in, let me first bring you up to speed. In response to what we have been hearing consistently from the community in various parts of the world, we will add a 3rd DrupalCon to the annual roster. This DrupalCon will be focused in a region in which Drupal is gaining traction, and having a Con could help further Drupal adoption. We posted this blog in the fall, outlining the criteria used to select future locations. In this process, we determined that this 3rd Con will take place over the next 3 years in Latin America, India and either China or Singapore. Since we were unsuccessful in São Paulo before, we decided that we wanted to have Latin America as the first stop in 2015.

Drupal Association Executive Director Holly Ross met with members of the Latin American community in January at Drupal Picchu. This was a fantastic meeting, with several countries represented, and it was there that São Paulo, Brazil and Bogota, Colombia were selected as the two top choices to hold this event. We’d like to pass along a big thank you to Nick Vidal (nickvidal) and Carlos Ospina (camoa) and their respective teams for their help in gathering information from both locations. I know it was a long list of questions, so, thanks to them both for the hard work in providing so many answers.

I have to say, I am thrilled with the level of enthusiasm and passion that has been shown in advocating for each location.  As far as community support goes, I am confident that in either place we would have a groundswell of passionate volunteers who would help produce the event.

That being said, there are some important distinctions between the two locations.  Here is a table of my findings:

Area

Brazil

Colombia

Notes

Business Community Large business community Smaller business community This will affect sponsorship and how much revenue we
can bring in
Travel Further location to travel - $1,000 average flight costs Less expensive for most of Latin Americans to get to - $300 - $600 flight This will affect both attendance numbers and ticket price.
Hotels** data corrected for Brazil Average is actually $160 per night during the Con period we would need Between $100 -
$200 night
This will affect who can come and afford to stay
Event Venue + AV Total: $23,925
$7,000 day = for 3 days - AV costs $975 day = $2925
Total: $12,000
$4,000 day for 3 days * AV included
Colombia is less expensive, although we don’t know the quality of AV...will need to explore
Internet $10,000 US for 100 MB for 3 days $16,000 US for 100 MB for 3 days We can probably negotiate these numbers down further
Catering $27 US per person average (Lunch and one coffee break) $20 per person average (Lunch and one coffee break) Colombia is less expensive
Visa issues Visa - needed from US, not needed for most of Latin America Visa - not needed from US or most of Latin America The issues with US getting visas to Brazil have been tough in the last year or so. There is concern that this will affect attendance, and make it difficult to get some of our featured speakers to the event
Fiscal Sponsorship The Brazilian Drupal Association will be the Fiscal sponsor The company SeeD will be the Fiscal sponsor Our business manager
needs to talk with both companies to understand how this will work. But both are viable options.
Other Event Considerations Carnival happening Feb 14 - 18, 2015
The Carnival is a festival celebrating the beginning of Lent.
Carnival Barranquilla February 14-18,  2015 - This event includes  Bull fighting in Bogota. In both countries, we need to work around these events either pushing DrupalCon into early February or waiting until after. The suggestion from both cities is to have it earlier, so people can choose to stay if they want to attend Carnival.

Conclusions:
From our standpoint, given all the cost considerations along with travel considerations, including both average flight costs and visa considerations, it is our recommendation that we hold the February 2015 DrupalCon Latin American conference in Bogota, Colombia.

That is what we think, but we want your feedback!  Tell us what you think about this idea!  Are you excited about having Bogota as the Latin American Con destination? Are there any considerations we have failed to look at? Let us know your feelings soon! There is a lot of planning that has to happen between now and February of next year, so we will be finalizing this decision by end of next week.

 

Stephanie Torres
Community Program Manager
Drupal Association

Image credit to PlanetObserver on flickr.

 


En Español

 

Después de una larga espera, hoy podemos presentar las opciones a considerar para el lugar de celebración de la DrupalCon 2015 en Latinoamérica. Hemos hecho un resumen de los pros y contras de las dos localidades estudiadas, pero queremos que nos digáis lo que pensáis al respecto

Antes de que empiece, dejadme que os ponga al día. Como respuesta de lo que hemos ido escuchando de forma reiterada desde la comunidad a nivel global, vamos a añadir una tercera DrupalCon al calendario anual. Esta DrupalCon estará centrada en una región donde Drupal esté ganando tracción, y donde celebrar el evento podría ayudar al crecimiento de Drupal localmente. Recientemente, hemos publicado los criterios de selección para futuras localidades y en este proceso hemos determinado que esta tercera DrupalCon tendrá lugar durante los próximos tres años en Latinoamérica, India y o bien China o Singapur. Ya que la celebración de la edición en São Paulo no tuvo éxito, tiene sentido que nuestra primera parada sea Latinoamérica en 2015.

La directora ejecutiva de la Drupal Association, Holly Ross, estuvo en Enero en el Drupal Picchu reuniéndose con miembros de la comunidad latinoamericana. Fue una reunión estupenda, con multitud de países representados y gracias a estas reuniones se acotaron las dos opciones preferentes para el evento: São Paulo en Brasil y Bogota, en Colombia. Tenemos que agradecerle efusivamente, tanto a Nick Vidal (nickvidal) como a Carlos Ospina (camoa) y sus equipos, la ayuda prestada recogiendo información sobre las localidades y respondiendo a la avalancha de preguntas que les hicimos.

Debo decir que estoy muy emocionada con el nivel de entusiasmo y pasión con el que se han defendido ambas localidades. No nos queda la menor duda con respecto a que, a nivel comunidad, cualquiera de los dos lugares sería una elección excelente por la cantidad de voluntarios que ayudarían entusiasmados a que el evento fuera un éxito.

Una vez dicho esto, hemos hecho un listado de diferencias entre las dos localidades en la siguiente tabla:

Area

Brasil

Colombia

Notas

Comunidad de negocios Mayor comunidad en cuanto a negocio Comunidad de negocio más reducida Esto afectará a los patrocinios y al beneficio obtenido
Viaje Destino más alejado - $1,000 de coste medio de los vuelos Más barato para la mayoría de Latinoamérica. Coste aproximado del vuelo: $300 - $600 Este factor afecta tanto al número de participantes como al precio de la entrada.
Hoteles Entre $160 por noche en la fechas posibles para el evento. Entre $100 -
$200 por noche
Esto afectaría a quien puede permitirse atender.
Recinto del evento y coste audiovisual Total: $23,925
$7,000 a día = por 3 días - Coste audiovisual $975 al día = $2925
Total: $12,000
$4,000 al día por 3 días * Incluye el coste audiovisual
Colombia es más barato aunque no tenemos información sobre la calidad de los medios audiovisuales y tendríamos que revisarlo.
Internet $10,000 por 100MB por 3 días $16,000 por 100 MB por 3 días Es probable que podamos reducir este coste.
Cátering $27 por persona, de media (Incluyendo comida y café) $20 por persona, de media (Incluyendo comida y café) Colombia es más barato
Visados Visado necesario desde E.E.U.U. - no necesario desde muchas partes de Latinoamérica Visado no necesario desde E.E.U.U. - no necesario desde muchas partes de Latinoamérica Ha habido bastantes problemas para conseguir visado desde Estados Unidos a Brasil desde hace un año aproximadamente. Esto podría afectar al número de asistentes, dificultando la llegada de alguno de los ponentes al evento.
Gestiones fiscales La asociación brasileña de Drupal sería el patrocinador para temas tributarios o fiscales. La empresa SeeD sería el patrocinador para temas tributarios o fiscales. Nuestro gestor de negocios deberá evaluar ambas opciones para ver cómo funcionará. Ambas son opciones viables.
Otras consideraciones El carnaval se celebra del 14 al 18 de Febrero en 2015. El carnaval es un festival celebrado a principios de cuaresma Carnaval de Barranquilla, del 14 al 18 de Febrero en 2015. Este evento incluye corridas de toros en Bogotá. Para ambos paises, debemos gestionar cómo no colisionar con estos eventos, bien celebrando la DrupalCon a principios de Febrero o a finales. La sugerencia en ambas ciudades es celebrarla antes, para que los asistentes puedan elegir si quedarse o no para los carnavales.

Conclusiones:
Desde nuestro punto de vista, dadas las consideraciones de costes y facilidades de viaje, incluyendo tanto los costes medios de vuelos como consideraciones con respecto al visado, nuestra recomendación es celebrar la DrupalCon de Febrero 2015 en Latinoamérica en la ciudad de Bogotá, Colombia

Esta es nuestra opinión, pero queremos las vuestras. Contadnos qué pensáis sobre la idea, ¿os parece buena idea Bogotá como destino de la DrupalCon en Latinoamérica? ¿Hay otros factores que debamos considerar y no lo hemos hecho? Decidnos algo cuanto antes ya que tendremos que empezar a planificar pronto para tenerlo todo listo en Febrero del año que viene. La decisión se tomará a finales de la semana que viene.

 

Stephanie Torres
Community Program Manager
Drupal Association

Image credit to PlanetObserver on flickr.

Comments

LewisNyman’s picture

Bogota! Can't wait. I haven't been there for ages, the bicycle network is supposed be fantastic now. Tour de Drupal anyone?

jcarroyos’s picture

Ciclopaseo drupalero por Bogotá, wow.

math3usmartins’s picture

Please check the following information. It was posted by lnunesbr and I think it's worthy bringing it to the top:

Link to the original comment.

-----

IMPORTANT NOTICE
Posted by lnunesbr on March 14, 2014 at 2:42pm

With the intent of making this discussion as transparent as possible, the Brazilian Drupal Association has not only published an Open Proposal:

https://groups.drupal.org/node/413458

But now it has also published an Open Letter:

https://groups.drupal.org/node/413838

math3usmartins’s picture

Some relevant statistics based on LinkedIn and most relevant latin american countries.

Including Mexico, but missing some small countries:

Brazil: 1878 developers (~ 29%)

Argentina: 1383 developers (~ 21%)

So, Brazil and Argentina have together ~ 50% of the latin american developers.

It should be close to real numbers. At least, it's a relevant asset.

Full report with graphic: http://goo.gl/iq6uWj

Considering the benefits for the local community (developers, companies and market); the ease to bring them; and the overall impact of the drupalcon, São Paulo seems to be the best choice.

 

jmolivas’s picture

Will be great to have a Spanish & Portuguese version of this post.

stephaniet66’s picture

Thanks to Pedro, we've just added the blog post in Spanish.  Thank you Pedro!!!

camoa’s picture

Good. Less work for me.

Fidelix’s picture

I live in Brazil and the price for the internet is wrong.

You can find a full duplex 100mb connection for less than 500 dollars for three days. At least in Rio and São Paulo...

The prices for the hotels are also wrong, unless you want to stay at a 4-5 stars hotel :)

Fidelix’s picture

Looks like someone gave you these values in R$ and you removed the "R" :)

stephaniet66’s picture

Hi there - I appreciate your comments about costs in Brazil.  These are ballpark costs, and we will certainly do more negotiating once we firmly decide on a location.  We will be relying heavily on the local community to assist us with these negotiations!

 

 

Fred Ferrer’s picture

The decision on the most appropriate place, I believe it is very important to have the correct information, because if a decision is made based on what is being presented, the decision may not be as assertive, as one of the most important points at being presented are the cost structures offered by each country / city.

We are available to assist in the transfer of correct information, if understood as extremely necessary.

Thanks,

gdemet’s picture

Does the $500 Internet cost factor in the cost of equipment rental? My understanding is that most of the cost comes from rentals.

nickvidal’s picture

Hi George,

 

The Internet cost covers not only equipment rental costs, but also professionals on site.

 

We didn't research hotel prices. I believe those are 4 and 5 star hotels, which indeed are quite expensive in Sao Paulo. But the prices vary greatly and cheaper hotels are easy to find. You can find a Best Western for U$ 100.

 

We made an open call for quotes from the community and hopefully both Brazilians and Colombians can provide more information.

 

Thanks,

Nick

 

camoa’s picture

I believe w both did that. So we can compare apples to apples. Bogotá's prices are also for 4-5 stars.

gdemet’s picture

These numbers assume 3 days of Internet and A/V, but at past Cons, the pattern has actually been for five days of Internet (3 days of conference + training day + sprint day) and 4 days of A/V (3 days of conference, plus training day). Are we assuming that DrupalCon Latin America will be shorter, or is the 3-day estimate just a placeholder to get ballpark quotes?

stephaniet66’s picture

Hi George - and yes, we are assuming a shorter DrupalCon in Latin America.  We may or may not offer Training, we are planning on 2 days of the Con itself and a final day of sprints - Probably a Wednesday - Friday time period.  This is what we agreed to in our conversations with the community.

Gábor Hojtsy’s picture

The internet connection that is needed for a DrupalCon should be much higher grade that is for regular home connections (eg. higher guaranteed service levels, onsite support). Also serving thousand+ devices in a relatively small space requires special wifi hardware and know-how, you cannot just drop in a regular wifi setup as in a cafe for example. These may significantly raise the price. I don't have local pricing information, but wanted to note that when you say the internet costs are estimated low, you considered all these factors.

gdemet’s picture

In addition to the long wait times for Brazilian visas (which I've heard can be up to a couple months), visas for U.S. citizens cost $180 USD each ($160 if you apply in person): http://chicago.itamaraty.gov.br/en-us/visa_fee_table.xml 

For those U.S. citizens who don't already have Brazilian visas, this additional expense would need to be factored into the cost of attending the event. The Association would also need to encourage attendees for a Brazilian DrupalCon to start making their travel plans much earlier than DrupalCon attendees normally have done in the past in order to leave enough time for their visa applications to be processed.  

stephaniet66’s picture

Yes, George - this is a big concern for us.

math3usmartins’s picture

BTW I personally miss US citizens on this topic.

.

How many are expected to attend this event if it happens in Bogota? And if it happens in São Paulo?

.

I'm saying that because some people already reported on this topic that only a few non latin americans came to south america on previous events.
.

Please see this comment (with statistcs + chart) to see that ~ 50%  of the latin americans (~ 3.2k people) can benefit if the event goes to SP:
https://association.drupal.org/comment/7598#comment-7598

.

It means a straight forward benefit for ~ 50% of the latin americans. Otherwise, going to Bogotá, it reduces the chances for these 50%.

Of course it doesn't mean that all of them will attend the event, but it's *MUCH* easier for all these people. 

.

That's why I think we need more participation from US citizens and we also need to estimate how many US citizens should come. And considering the previous events that's why IMHO maybe the D.A. is concerned about foreign participants that perhaps shouldn't *really* affect the choice.

.

PS. I'm sorry but I used dots to simulate paragraphs and give some breathing space.

Mark_L6n’s picture

Not only are the visas expensive, the bureacracy at a Brazilian embassy can be terrible, speaking from experience of 3 trips to the Washington DC embassy for 2 trips (and I came loaded with paperwork!)  The majority of applicants (whether Brazilian, U.S. or other) were being turned down in what they were applying for, and even a trade commission from Annapolis (the capital of the neighboring state of Maryland) had to cancel their trip because of an inability to obtain visas.  We would likely need an organized point of contact in Brazil who can issue letters of invitation to each attendee (assuming you're honest on your visa application and state the reason for your visit is a conference ;-).  And yes, you need to file the application far in advance to allow for rejection, obtaining further paperwork and resubmission.

math3usmartins’s picture

"We would likely need an organized point of contact in Brazil who can issue letters of invitation to each attendee (assuming you're honest on your visa application and state the reason for your visit is a conference ;-)"

I'll confirm more details, but I think we may be able to provide such support.

camoa’s picture

Great! Thanks stephany!!we will work hard on make this a a success. No matter where it is, as long as it is Latin America. Of course i go for Bogota. I believe it will be easier for my Latin friends to visit my city. And I'll make sure we have fun and learn a lot in my city. Go Bogota!!!

BTW I will translate the post as soon as I can, if that is ok with you Stephanie. And I know nick is already working on the Portuguese version.

stephaniet66’s picture

Hi Carlos - Pedro beat you to the Spanish version.  It is already up on the site!

Thanks so much

jhodgdon’s picture

I think that having a DrupalCon in Latin America is a wonderful idea... I have a few thoughts to contirbute to the discussion:

a) Visas: When the DrupalCon was proposed for Brazil the last time around, I remember checking into the feasibility of going, and due to the very complicated visa requirements, not thinking any further. (Note: I can't blame Brazil -- they've basically imposed similar visa requirements on US citizens as the US has placed on their citizens. But it does make considering a trip much more complicated.) There were several of us discussing it that day on IRC -- can't remember exactly who -- but I know all of us thought it was a barrier to even thinking about going. That is just one anecdotal data point... just saying, I think it's a good thing you have visas in your table of considerations, assuming you want people from the US to attend. Also, I am not sure if/how visas affect travelers from Europe or Canada, so you might look into that for both countries?

b) Perception of safety: Another concern that I think you should address in your table is travel safety and security. In the US at least, there is a widespread perception of danger associated with Bogota and Columbia (and the US State Department still has active travel warnings -- not just alerts but warnings -- for potential travelers about kidnappings, drug gang violence, etc.). Whether this perception is appropriate or not for today (as opposed to 10-20 years ago), I think you might want to add it to your list of considerations, as it may affect people from other countries' willingness to attend a DrupalCon in Columbia (less likely, but still possible, in Sao Paulo as well?).

c) I think you also need to address what happened a few years ago when the DA announced and then canceled the previous attempt at a Latin American DrupalCon. What are the criteria for being able to actually hold it this time? Is there a minimum level of sponsorship you require in order to make the event happen, and does that differ based on the two locations? The last time around left me (and I think others?) with kind of a bad feeling, so I think it would be better to lay out the criteria ahead of time and be transparent on whether it's really going to happen or is still contingent, at all stages of planning.

camoa’s picture

We will address this further. But this perceptions are way updated. You'll see!! Y'all will be safer than those warnings imply. For now. Check twae videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJrpoEFRZLY

camoa’s picture

stephaniet66’s picture

Thank you for these comments.  Very astute and appreciate you bringing them up.  Let me address them each separately:

First - Visa issues in Brazil.  This is probably our top concern at the Drupal Association regarding this location.  While it seems things have eased up a bit in regards to US visitors, the fact that those in the US need a visa at all is a concern.

Secondly- regarding Bogota safety...yes, there has been concern associated with safety in Columbia, no doubt about it.  However, the city has worked hard to make things more safe and is really encouraging tourism and creating a welcoming environment for outside conferences to come.  We would take every precaution with our attendees and address these concerns more directly in the planning process.

And finally - What happened last time in Sao Paolo?  I appreciate you bringing this up as well!  We just felt awful about that misstep.  That is precisely why we have chosen Latin America now.  What I can say is that the Drupal Association has grown up a little bit since then.  Believe me, the last thing we want to do is to repeat past mistakes!  And we are in a position now, with more expertise on staff, and more of an understanding of the financial considerations we will need to address, to feel confident in pulling off this event.  

We have every intention of making it work, and producing a successful con for the Latin American community!

Crell’s picture

Was a post-mortem done recently for Sao Paulo to see "what went wrong?"  Ie, are we reasonably confident that whatever it was that forced us to cancel Sao Paulo has been addressed and won't happen again, or is there just a sense of "we're smarter now so it should be OK?"

I don't necessarily need a rundown here; as long as we know that such investigation/consideration has been done and taken into account that's sufficient.  I'll trust you if you say you've done the work. :-)  From a mostly-outsider perspective my perception was that attendance was way low due to visa issues and distance (Sao Paulo is further from me in Chicago than most European Cons are), but I don't know if that's what the story was internally.

Otherwise, jhodgdon neatly summarized all of the concern points I would have as well, either direction.

xamanu’s picture

I'm very happy to see this news!

it is a great to see the Drupal Association now really opening up towards other parts/continents of the world. I consider it a brave and very good step to start with Latin America after the São Paulo cancellation. It will help people to regain trust in the international community and I'm sure that, given the case that the community is involved, which I can clearly see here by the names of the persons working on both proposals and the comments here.

Thanks for all the hard work! I think that the Drupal Association as much as the Latin American community has learned so much, so this is going to be a dignified cooperation and therefore a prosperous event.

camoa’s picture

You are right crell, de need to make sure not to repeat mistakes. I wwould love to tall to you and everyone AT Chicago during midwest campo and see how as a community can help. Either is Bogota(yaay) or sao Paulo.

camoa’s picture

Darn you Spanish autocorrect!!

camoa’s picture

Darn you Spanish autocorrect!!

stephaniet66’s picture

We are confident we can now pull off a successful event, provided the community steps up to meet us!  Which both are eager and well equipped to do!

jhodgdon’s picture

I want to stress that while *I* am not particularly afraid to visit Bogota, some others may be (I've traveled all over the world and to several other reportedly-dangerous Latin American capitol cities, including living in San Salvador for 3 months one time, so...). :)

Anyway, thanks for responding frankly to my concerns! The plans sound great, and maybe I'll even try to make it to DrupalCon this time (I don't ever go to the big North American DrupalCons any more, and Europe is pretty far for me to go, but as a fluent Spanish speaker and fairly involved member of the Drupal Core dev team, maybe I can make a contribution to this one?).

develCuy’s picture

(english below)

 

Hay varios líderes de la comunidad muy conocidos en América Latina, pero en esta oportunidad quisiera hacer dos menciones honoríficas, en ningún order particular:

Ambos son parte de la comunidad Drupal Latino desde el inicio. Ellos trabajaron de manera consistente para hacer que sus respectivas locationes ganen tracción, y ahora están viendo el resultado de su arduo trabajo.

 

¡A propósito, son geniales noticias que la DA (Asociación Drupal) está decidida a hacer que el Drupalcon Latino acontezca el próximo año! Sea cual sea la decisión final, invito a que ambos: Colombia y Brasil, y toda la comunidad Drupal Latino a colaborar juntos como equipo, para hacer de Drupalcon Latino un gran éxito para toda la comunidad.

 

¡Viva la Drupalución!

 

English

There are several well known Drupal community leaders in Latin America, but this time I would like to make two honorable mentions, in no particular order:

Them both are part of the Drupal Latino community since the very beginning. They consistently worked to make their respective locations to gain traction, and now they are seeing the result of their hard work.

 

BTW, this is great news that DA is decided to make Drupalcon Latino to happen next year! Whatever is the final decision, I invite both Colombia and Brasil, and the whole Drupal Latino community to collaborate together as a team, in order to make Drupalcon Latino a big success for the whole community.

 

¡Viva la Drupalución! - no translation ;)

camoa’s picture

Thanks fernando!! This was really important yo add

aldibier’s picture

Thanks Fernando, definetly the good notice is the DrupalCon will be in Latin America in 2015!

drw’s picture

I can't believe it, we will have the first DrupalCon at Latin America.

I like so much which this event will be in Colombia because is close to Ecuador and is very cheap than Sao Paulo for me.

These are great news

Cheers Colombia and Latin America Community.

nickvidal’s picture

Thank you Stephanie and the Drupal Association for your commitment to spread Drupal around the world! The Drupal Latino community welcomes everyone and we look forward to receiving you at the 2015 Latin American DrupalCon!

 

Gracias Stephanie y la Asociación Drupal por su compromiso de difundir Drupal en todo el mundo! La comunidad Drupal Latino da la bienvenida a todos y esperamos recibir ustedes en la DrupalCon América Latina 2015!

jahubego’s picture

Apoyo a Bogotá como sede del DrupalCon.

I support Bogota as the location for the DrupalCon.

dvasquez’s picture

All us go Bogotá! (y)

steveparks’s picture

Great to see Drupalcon will be heading to Latin America - but even better to see this open, collaborative consultation and discussion. Thanks DA!

I'm outside the region, but wanted to post a suggestion that reflects how the community originally grew in Europe as that may be a useful way to approach it, which is to focus initially on building the grassroots community, before trying to attract clients and agencies. That means initially starting small, being cheap, and being easy to get to.

The rest follows the nurturing of that community.

Either country will be a great destination otherwise. Good luck to all!

-enzo-’s picture

English

This is a great news for the LATAM community, doesn't matter in what city the DA choose for organize this event will be huge impact in our community.

I know each one could have ideas about what city is better, after the DA decide which one is picked, remember in three years we will have again this event in LATAM.

Off course we all are really excited to have great speakers at DrupalCon in LATAM, but don't forget we have some local talents eager to share their knowledge to the rest of the community. we need encourage this talent to be part of this event not just as listener, we need them as speakers.

We can think about national DrupalCamps as a preparation for the DrupalCon our big Goal.

Although remember DrupalCon is not only for geek people, we need to invite to join us to key people from our society i.e CTO , CIO, etc of Goverment and Big Corporations, we need to stablish a good environment to encourage companies and organization to use the platform in that way we advance in the process to consolidate a Drupal environment in LATAM.

Said this,  I expect see a lot of new faces and off course and use DrupalCon as an excuse to hang out with my Drupal friends.

Español

Esta es una gran noticia para la comunidad en latinoamerica. No importa en qué ciudad la DA eleja para organizar este evento, este evento  será un enorme impacto en nuestra comunidad.

Sé que cada uno podra tener ideas acerca de lo que la ciudad es mejor, después de la DA decida cuál es la sede , recuerde en tres años vamos a tener de nuevo este evento en LATAM .

Por supuesto que todos estamos muy emocionados de tener a grandes oradores en DrupalCon en LATAM, pero no olvide que tenemos algunos talentos locales deseosos de compartir sus conocimientos con el resto de la comunidad. tenemos que fomentar este talento para ser parte de este evento no sólo como oyente, los necesitamos como ponentes.

Podemos pensar en los DrupalCamps nacionales como preparación para la DrupalCon nuestro gran objetivo .

Ademas recuerde DrupalCon está no sólo para la gente friki , tenemos que invitar a unirse a nosotros a las personas clave de nuestra sociedad es decir, CTO , CIO, etc de Gobierno y grandes empresas, tenemos que establecer un buen ambiente para alentar a las empresas y organizaciones a utilizar el plataforma de esa manera avanzaremos en el proceso de consolidar un entorno Drupal en LATAM .

Dicho esto, espero ver un montón de caras nuevas y por supuesto y utilizar DrupalCon como una excusa para pasar el rato con mis amigos de Drupal .

stephaniet66’s picture

Yes - enzo!  We will definitely want local talent in the speakers pool.  And will also need volunteers to help with every aspect of the con including folks to be on the content selection team.

handrus’s picture

I'm missing a important information, what is the capacityof the venues? This will limit the number of people that can attend, and if the price is really cheaper at Bogotá or not.

camoa’s picture

In Bogota we are talking about 400 to 500. But we can grow if need it.

rafaelcichini’s picture

So... if we think about DrupalCon we need to think in more people. The last Drupal Camp in São Paulo we had 250 Drupal Developers. So... think about it... because São Paulo is just one city and if you think in entire Brazil.... If in a Drupal Camp is possible to have 250 people. Imagine with a DrupalCon.

Joining just all people that are working in Drupal Companies in Brasil we can consider 500 people. I don't know, but São Paulo has more potencial than Bogotá to engage more people in a DrupalCon.

Tks

 

handrus’s picture

As pointed out here: https://groups.drupal.org/node/413458 Just the main auditorium considere in Brazil supports 800 people. Total being arround 1200~1700 people. That put we are saying that in Bogotá we have $24 per person just for AV, while in São Paulo we have $19 per person. Of courso both can be negotiated but so far I feel we need to think twice when we say Bogotá is cheaper.

Do you think Bogotá proposal could be opened ad São Paulo did so we could better explore the options?

xjkwak’s picture

Can someone please provide real information about the last drupal events in Brazil and Columbia? 

Regards,

Cristian 

jahubego’s picture

Its Colombia, not Columbia.

David Jeyachandran’s picture

That is great news! I can't wait!

vacho’s picture

Español

Este va a ser un evento genial. Todos los drupaleros latinos apoyaremos.

Pienso que se debe trabajar los criterios de precios me parece que en ambas ciudades estan sobrevaluados en cuanto a hospedaje, recinto del evento, internet. Sobre todo brazil como varios de la misma ciudad comentan.

Salvo que realmente no hayan mejores opciones. Debería cada comunidad local de esta dos ciudades dedicar un tiempo a conseguir la mejor oferta.

 

English

This will be a great event. All Latin drupalers support you.

I think it should working in prices criteria that in both cities are overvalued in terms of lodging, event site, internet. Brazil especially, as several of the same city discussed.

Unless you really do not have better options. Should every local community of the two cities take the time to get the best deal.

camoa’s picture

Trust me this are not the best prices, we are all ball parking it, we are working on negotiating better deals inbogota in case it come our way!!

brantwynn’s picture

I support whatever decision is made, but I do believe the likliehood of more internationals visiting DrupalCon Latin America rests on Visa acquisition (or lack therof).  

I personally have no fear of visiting Bogota but I do think - on a general level, that's a concern just as much for Colombia as it is Brazil.  Safety is always a concern, no matter where you are traveling to.

If you're asking us to vote - then I vote for whatever is most inclusive.  Both for cost and logistics (Visa acquisition), it seems Bogota is a better destination.

Dave Reid’s picture

Agreed. I would immediately consider attending a DrupalCon in Bogota, where as Sao Paulo just isn't really something I can plan for.

Plazik’s picture

DrupalCon 2013 was in Australia, DrupalCon 2015 is going to be in Brazil or Colombia, so DrupalCon 2017 will be in Russia?

npoveda214’s picture

Drupal helps you to see the world, I planned visit Machu Pichu 3 times, but Thanks by Drupal I could it in January. Now, It´s the oportunity to visit LATAM, with the comunity people, make friends and know another culture. Journey through Colombia, I recommend.

rafaelcichini’s picture

So... I read the published comparative and some points argumented that is a good point are based only on price.

I'll put some points here to make us all think.

São Paulo is the important place to do business. Is the fourth largest metropolis in the world.

Is the most important Business City of South America.

Now, together with Acquia we'll have the largest Drupal Case in South America.

Brazil has an oficial Drupal Association called Drupal Association Brazil, to engaged the comunity. Colombia has a specific company (good company) at the front of this event. In my point of view, Brazil seems to merit further by having a more organized initiative that involves several companies and not only.

Other important point is: Entire Colombia has 47 million people, Brazil has more than 200 million and São Paulo City has more than 20 million. So... just São Paulo City is a half Colombia.

The most important Global Companies have one Head Quarter in Brazil. When one global company comes to South America, São Paulo is the first place.

I would like everyone to think what is best for Drupal and not just price.

In Brazil you can do events cheaper, but that is was designed to be a high profile event such as DrupalCon already happening in the U.S. and Europe.

Thank you

cesabal’s picture

I will just add, and clarify, Sao Paulo is ONE of the places to do business, most big companies (Google, Facebook, etc.) When they come to south America they come to Sao Paulo and Bogota; just like drupalcon is doing this time.

I have a Drupal Company and know many others, in what data do you base your affirmation we only have one company? Where do I register mine to appear in those records? So cool, I did not knw there was something like that. I know Seed is one of the more actives that is true but not the only.

I will love to go to Sao Paulo, is a great city I understand. But your call in numbers and population... I don't understand...

Isn't a DrupalCon supposed to be about the whole community in the region? If we are trying to fill a convention center with only Colombians or Only Brazilians, whatever the decision is, I think the organizers are losing the goal. I will love to see people from everywhere in south america and the world in any DrupalCon.

I believe Sao Paulo is way bigger, but it does not mean Bogota is just a small city, we are also recognized by several countries as one of the good places for business as it is Sao Paulo. So when we think of what is best for Drupal, we also need to think what is best for drupal in the Latin American Region. Don't we need every country represented in as large numbers as possible? Don't we need to think on Dupalers in countries that are not so greatly developed as Brazil?

I go for Bogota because is rom where I am, but also because Price is important to get a better variety of drupalers and grow the community of all the countries in south america.

handrus’s picture

I think you lost Rafel's point. He is not saying Colombia has only one company, but that only one company is holding resposability for a Drupal Con, while Drupal Association Brazil have 15 companies togheter.

Also when he talks about population this is a way to measure the infrastructure the city can offer to a big event.

Anyway I agree with you with prices, but cost of the event in São Paulo is actually lower than in Bogotá (this is a reflex of having more population an thus better infrastructure) since it is considering 1200 people. Seriously Bogotá should come with something better than 500 people for a DrupalCon for the entire LATAM and surely the local community is working for that.

nickvidal’s picture

Hi everyone,

I believe this open discussion is very healthy! It's already a big win for the Drupal community as a whole and specifically for Latin America.

On behalf of the Brazilian Drupal Association, and with the intent of making this discussion as transparent as possible, I'm publishing our initial proposal for Sao Paulo as a potential host for the 2015 DrupalCon Latin America:

https://groups.drupal.org/node/413458

We had an amazing 2013 here in Brazil, with participation in all the top open-source events in Brazil (with thousands of attendees each), as well as 2 major DrupalCamps: one in Sao Paulo and another Porto Alegre, both with an attendence of around 300 participants.

Whatever the choice for the host city, the Brazilian Drupal Association will give its full support. Our goal is to promote Drupal everywhere!

Kind regards,

Nick

rafaelcichini’s picture

Very good page and very nice place!

So... i dont know, but FECOMERCIO-SP is under that my Customer CNC - Confederação Nacional do Comércio, and we use Drupal for all projects in CNC and for all unions.

I can try something to reduce the costs.

 

camoa’s picture

I agree with Nick, We are working towards a Drupal Camp Latino. That means that it involves all of us, each one of our countries In south and Central America.

Nick, Brazil is, without a doubt, an example to follow. The community is great, they are great friends!!! We had so much Fun in Peru.. hehehe But I diverge.

 

To be honest we did discuss the creation of the Colombian Drupal Association, this will happen, but the setting up legally and logistically will add time to the timeline for DrupalCon, so thanks to Seed for stepping up.

I believe that what we really need is to hear from everyone, as we have from our friends in USA, specially from the people in other countries, Where will be more convenient for you? I appreciate the amazing numbers that our friends from Just Digital are Sharing! But, even though a great assistance is a big concern, I believe that what we need for this kind of event is to make sure we make it affordable, in the beginning, to the most number of people from every country! 

We are up for a DrupalCon Latino, either Brazil or Colombia, but we want to make sure we will have a good representation from everywhere in the world!! so please, make your comment and let us know what you are thinking, Does it make a difference for you the city? the prices? Is Bogota easier for you to get to the DrupalCon or is it Sao Paulo?

 

I invite everyone to let us know, because at the end, this is an event  for the whole Community not only for Colombia or Brazil.  

 

Carlos Mario Ospina

 

camoa’s picture

Is DrupalCon not Drupal Camp....... Bad camoa!!!

jonaserik’s picture

Brazil has better infrastructure. Looking at the costs quoted in the comparison table, I'm sure you can find a cheaper stay in nearby streets and easy access.

I say that because I live in <b>Sao Paulo</b> and I know that price shown in this table is very high. Higher than it actually is.

cesabal’s picture

It is really nice to have this comparison from someone that has been to both places!! When were you in Bogota last time Jonas? Bogota has grown a lot in the last ten years. I Don't know how is Sao Paulo, so I will not dare to make any statement about better or worse infrastructure, but my understanding is Bogota is really good on infraestructure, with transmilenio being copied in several parts of the world. I believe Bogota has a very good infraestructure for an event like this. even some people consider Bogota one of the center of business in south america. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSJbXZVaNnQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Cellar Door’s picture

I would have to agree with the recommendation here for Bogota to host and echo some of the items that jhodgdon voiced in terms of concerns. Overall I think it is a huge win for the community to revisit a Latin American conference and we all gain from it no matter the location.

That being said I think to kick off a con in a new location, accessibility needs to be the primary concern to gain traction for follow on years. From my travels, visa requirements can be a hinderance for quite a few people. It's not a total deal breaker for anyone but if we want to make the first one in Latin America as accessible as possible, having it in a country without any major visa restrictions is a great way to start. Also, with Colombia being more centrally located with cheaper flights from most of Latin America and US lowers the financial barrier to attending. According to the comparison it also appears that the total budget, attendance cost (including hotels etc.) are all lower as well. Having a low travel and financial barrier for all involved will only serve to encourage more attendance and a successful start to having more cons in Latin America.

I look forward to hopefully attending in Bogota and helping out in any way! I think this is a great opportunity for everyone!

 

cesabal’s picture

Is realy a great news, i'm wating for all "drupaleros",.

This idea is excelent, i use drupal for all my projects and it's a better cms.

I think that this event is very necesary to grow togetter with this great cms, i'm wating for all.

npoveda214’s picture

Bogotá 2015, is a great option,  give us the opportunity to show our city, history, culture and vision.

Colombia, and Bogotá, have had significant growth at the region, now is an excelent point for the

foreign investment.

Also We are growing as community ; and although only shows a name as represented, There are a plenty of organizations with interests and works in drupal

 

eebanos’s picture

Please consider Cuba for the next event in Latin America.

nestor.mata’s picture

In terms of costs Bogota will always be cheaper than Brazil, and I have to say it is a factor for me in terms if I will assist or not, I'm sure I'm not the only one, so I think doing it in Bogota will allow more people to be there.

Regarding the visas for U.S. Citizens, I would like to see many of the great guys from US there, but there is a good posibility that some (or many) will not assist because of this.

So, my vote goes to Bogota, Colombia.

Keep the good work!

 

Best regards,
Nestor

pmichelazzo’s picture

My friends and specially my Colombian friends,

 

How a "paulista" (born in São Paulo), I can't leave this good dispute without some words and visions about the Brazilian candidacy and why São Paulo could be the best option for everybody.

 

Leaving behind the amazing presentation about São Paulo of my Brazilian friends (https://groups.drupal.org/node/413458), we have some hidden opportunities on this place.

 

We have a funny joke in Brazil where the people say "São Paulo is the Brazilian locomotive". The city is a mix of cultures, people, languages, costumes and colors. But, the most important part of it is: we make money, a lot of money. We have all the biggest worldwide companies with offices in São Paulo; we're the front door for any company coming to Latin America, and a lot of those companies use Drupal. This could be just a detail but, if you put lenses over this information, you can see more than a "big, crazy, dirt and insane city to make a DrupanCon".

 

But in the other hand, we have a big problem: we don't have sufficient hands to carry all projects and jobs that we have with Drupal. In my opinion, the DrupalCon could be an amazing opportunity to show the power of our CMS and the power of our community for companies using Drupal and specially for companies that don't use Drupal right now. We can use the conferece to meet our old and new friends, share knowledge, drink beers (for sure!) and why not, make money? It's a huge opportunity for every Drupal professional, from Brazil or outside. Big projects and big companies looking for professional to drive Drupal solutions in different areas.

 

Of course, I can't talk about Bogotá and Colombia because my last trip to this country was 10 years ago and I think the things was changed. But a city with a GDP of USD 200 billion (half of entire Colombian GDP) give us a lot of opportunities for everyone, including people from Latin America (that we can understand the language very well) and from overseas.

 

I'm not putting my heart and sentiments here. I'm just giving data and a different vision about what a conference like this can show for us. We love to create wonderful solutions using Drupal but, also, we love to make money. Or not?

 

Regards!

lnunesbr’s picture

Hey guys, I am pretty happy and excited with having the first Drupalcon Latin America. I think our community has such a great chance to make a wonderful Con.

I just wanna take my considerations out of my chest, please don't take me wrong.

As brazilian and legal responsible by Brazilian Drupal Association, I have to promote my country.

It's really fair and obviously necessary DA open to the community the possibility of both competing cities to host the Con, providing the cost table, and also, raising all fully justified concerns, from both cities.

I was just expecting a more neutral position from DA, since it was clearly pointed Bogotá as the preferred city. And actually, seeing its comments on the DA post announcement, and on fb/tt posts, everybody thinks that it's already decided will be on Colombia, I am not sure that's the case.

It's really fair DA concerns about Sao Paulo, after the previous attempt fails, but I don't think brazilian community has much more to prove, since we founded our local association, and having more than 4 successfully camps around Brazil, reaching more than 1,000 people, and in fact we are thousand miles ahead than we was on 2012.

I may be wrong, but also the brazilian prices was somewhat rounded to higher prices. Costs of hotel rooms for example, are completely flawed. I am pretty aware São Paulo is not a cheap city, but hotel rooms from 250 to 400usd, unless the community members attending the Con are expecting to be on top level 5 stars hotels, there are lots of mid level hotels for very competitive prices.

Other point, wasn't clear the potential for both countries to get sponsorship. From my point of view, Brazil has clearly advantage on that, and could get easily much more premium sponsorship than Colombia from local companies. Actually those companies have much more to win investing money on a Con on their on country, than going to a different country.

Regarding the Visa, obviously US has the strongest drupal community, and blessed be the reciprocity, because it's what we face when we want to go to US, long lines, and late schedules to get the american Visa, and the notorious 160usd issue tax. But I don't expect/ or I guess not, not even for colombia or brazil, to get hundreds of drupalers from US or Europe, obviously there are high costs to go to south america, and you guys, have your own con around you. I would probably bet we would not get a considerable number of "gringos", so, the Con would be more local, I mean depending more from the local people. And considering the total costs for going to Latin america from US/EU, who really wanna go, the Visa, by far, may not be the main problem.

An exemple, I really loved DrupalPicchu, but, personaly, I was expecting to be a much bigger event, but wasn't the case, and actually, I may be overweighting it, but i think we had more people attending from other countries from Latin America, than the local so to speak. That's why I want to show the importance from the local community. And I don't think americans or europeans need visa to get in Peru, and we got, if i'm not wrong, 3 or 4 americans, and 2 europeans.

Also, as far we had a very productive conversation in Cusco, to raise both possible cities to host the Con, since we are the local responsibles for organizing the Con, and since we don't want to fall on the same mistakes of Sao Paulo Con 2012, I was hoping at least we have another conversation, between DA and brazilian/colombian folks, to discuss together what we got, and what should be the next steps.

We are still pushing our local community to a possible Con in São Paulo 2015, and we still wanna show our strength.

And, if Bogotá will really be the chosen city, I just want to highlight that you guys from DA and from Colombia, can fully count with us from Brazil.

I am not sure if I wrote everything I wanted, but for sure, was the most important...

And sorry for the long text, It was just what I had in my head about this DrupalCon announcement, and maybe I am just daydreaming, so please don't take me wrong.

Thank you all for the patience reading this,

 

Leandro Nunes --

nickvidal’s picture

Yes Leandro, you are daydreaming. But please continue, because it's beautiful! :)

Leandro was the one who lead the organization of DrupalCamp Sao Paulo last year, right after the fallout of the DrupalCon, and when no one believed in the potential of the community anymore. That's why when he says he wants to "take my considerations out of my chest", he is really speaking from the heart.

But somehow we were able to overcome all odds and trow an excellent DrupalCamp in Sao Paulo with over 250 participants from all over Brazil. The majority of the participants actually worked with Drupal already and the rest were seriously considering investing on it. To top it of, the Brazilian Drupal Association was founded.

What I learned from DrupalPicchu was the importance of the local community. I'm sure Bogota will bring the biggest diversity of public ecause of its central location in Latin America. But I'm afraid that the local community is not established enough to create enough audience (not just curious newbies, but actual developers and
business executives). How many participants from abroad can we really expect? DrupalPicchu had about 50, and I'm guessing a DrupalCon in Bogota would be able to pull off 100. The rest will necessarily have to come from the local community.

Analyzing all the accomplishments the Brazilian community has made, specially this past year, I would say the community is more prepared for an event of this nature. To bring in more diversity, one idea is to create an incentive program to facilitate participants from abroad to travel to Brazil, specially from the northern hemisphere and the US in particular because of the visa. We might not be able to pull off 100 from abroad, but if DrupalPicchu got 50, I'm sure we can surpass that.

Anyways, we all want to trow a successful DrupalCon in Latin America, independent of the host city. This is why this open dialogue and analysis is important!

ronaldfalcao’s picture

The Brazilian Drupal community deserves this recognition. The city of São Paulo, as opposed to what they say, get thousands of events annually (F1, Campus Party, Comi Con?) With best conditions for hotel and transportation. Yes, we are not a first world country and we have our limitations of infrastructure. But I think it would still be the best choice.

guilopes’s picture

Apoio que seja no Brasil e não em Bogota :)

rafaelcichini’s picture

My support is for it to happen in Brazil and not in Bogota :)

jmoreira’s picture

I think it would be great to have an event like that in Brazil.

vmartins’s picture

It would be great for this event in Brazil.

generalredneck’s picture

I think it would be a great chance for may of the American players to get in there and see South America and it's hospitality (and great food). Lets get our culture on!

wescleyteixeira’s picture

the last two years Drupal has gained much attention from the corporate sector and in particular in the Enterprise segment applications. By doing the event in Brazil in 2015 this will help further consolidate the Drupal market and help brazilian developers publish more cases . This is even better for a possible Drupal Camp 2016 in Colombia has more impact.

Moreover as the event happens before the World Cup I think the prices of hotels will not be sos expensive as h those raised in the above table. The prices in the table above will be different since Sao Paulo is chosen because the staff association will have more basis for negotiating.

fabianophp’s picture

2014 - World Cup Brazil(www.fifa.com/worldcup/destination/cities/city=1047/index.html)

2015 - DrupalCon :)

Vendramini’s picture

Companies working with Drupal is greater. The community is greater.

fkatsukawa’s picture

I think it must be in Brazil. It would be great this event here because is a big oportunity to our large community enjoy and colaborate with.

lostkangaroo’s picture

My endorsement is purely based on the beer snob residing within my skin.  What arguments are there towards who has the best beer and why?

nickvidal’s picture

Does a local beer specially made for a DrupalCamp in Brazil and autographed by Maddog himself count any extra points? :)

 

https://groups.drupal.org/node/307828

lostkangaroo’s picture

Possibly, this will weigh in the final decision.

pmichelazzo’s picture

And, if I told you that São Paulo have the biggest italian community outside of Italy and we made the best pizza ever, give us some few more points :)

Vendramini’s picture

São Paulo have better Beer and better Pub ;)

camoa’s picture

Better?? Hehehehe. Not so sure about that. As good maybe?

camoa’s picture

Hehehehehe you cracked me up!!! What if I set you up with open tab at Bogota beer company. Plus visits to bavaria, one of the largest south american beer companies, an then I'll throw lots of shinner your way every time we can? Hehehehe I feel like a politician.

Fidelix’s picture

FYI, Bavaria is Brazilian, and was sold to a Mexican company before the AMBEV fusion.

AMBEV is brazilian (based in São Paulo), and the largest company in south america and one of the largest in the world. It's worth 120 billion dollars. 

camoa’s picture

What are you talking about? 

Got lost here... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavaria_Brewery_(Colombia)

Fidelix’s picture

Apologies. Bavaria was also the name of a Brazilian beer :)

camoa’s picture

Got you!! I was like condorito.... Plop.

 

But you know, without being your intention to be mean, this shows the dangers of where this talk is being headed by some other people, we get so heated than besides finding out which city is better for the outside world of both countries. We get to the point to show than even in a simple fun exercise like the beer ( I'll make sure to buy  lost kangaroo a beer in our next meeting). We end up hearing than even that is better in Brazil. Or giving the impression that is the only point we are trying to make. Please everyone is not about that. 

lesleyfernandes’s picture

Try this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InBev

"InBev is a brewing company that resulted from the merger between Belgium-based company Interbrew and Brazilian brewer AmBev that occurred in 2004. It existed independently until the acquisition of Anheuser-Busch in 2008, that formed Anheuser-Busch InBev (abbreviated AB InBev). InBev had operations in over 30 countries and sales in over 130 countries.[1] In 2006, it had a market capitalization of €30.6 billion and net profit of €3.2 billion on sales of €13.3 billion."

AB Inbev brands: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AB_InBev_brands (we own budweiser and bud light btw)

xD

Muquiutti’s picture

DrupalCon this year in sao paulo!

sebas5384’s picture

Hey there! I'm happy to see that we are towards to a bigger and united event than a regional DrupalCamp.

I'm from Uruguay, living in Brasil for more than 8 years now, and there are a lot of big scale events happening in São Paulo, so my thoughts are that Brazil is the best suited place for doing an event that attends the DrupalCon needs, and even exceed expectations.

Talking about the community, I think its not that big, but, there are a lot of people working with Drupal and wanting to work with it. Because the market here is growing a lot and very fast, so new jobs are being opening in more organizations, and not only in Drupal Shops or Software houses. Saying that, we can expect a LOT of people from all arround the country, plus others :)

So my vote is to São Paulo, Brasil.

seregatte’s picture

I think that the greater city of Latin America will give the best support and infrastructure for a DrupalCon. And we don't can forget that the Drupal Brazilian Community is big.

Also, I can mentioned that in the last year, we did a DrupalCamp in São Paulo, and we can reach a public outside of our Drupal comunity, and we can will do again.

The Drupal Brazilian Community is awesome and will do a DrupalCon awesome!

camoa’s picture

I second this, for the third city in latin america :)

fgenghini’s picture

I vote for São Paulo!!

c3’s picture

Bogota will be better to ensure a bigger number of attendants from the whole region, otherwise, it will become just a DrupalCon Brazil.

ronaldfalcao’s picture

I do not agree with you. I think Brazil despite not being the geographic center of South America it is an economic and commercial center worldwide. It is very important for the Brazilian Drupal community to bring you and many others drupaleiros (as we call the Drupal users in Brazil) the world to know our country and our work with Drupal. We are very excited to have you with us. We structure to receive them. We have good examples of using drupal in our projects. These are the reasons for wanting to DrupalCon in Brazil.

handrus’s picture

As the number of people, think twice as I put above: https://association.drupal.org/comment/6648#comment-6648 São Paulo is using a place that support much more people (twice more at least) so the price and number of people aren't equal. São Paulo may be cheaper than Bogotá in the end.

camoa’s picture

That is a false premise, sorry. We all went with similar sizes.

handrus’s picture

Please correct me if I lost something.

You said 400 - 500 people here https://association.drupal.org/comment/6533#comment-6533

The proposal from São Paulo says "Main auditorium, for up to 800 people;

Three rooms, for 200-300 people each."

Sorry can't understand what you say with "false premise" nor with "similar size".

rrossetto’s picture

We will analyze only the costs? And the benefits of being present in the largest market in Latin America?
If Internet companies think this way, the internet will only Wordpress sites!

Vamos a analizar sólo los costos? Y los beneficios de estar presente en el mercado más grande de América Latina?
Si las compañías de Internet piensan de esta manera, internet se haría sólo con Wordpress!!!

lesleyfernandes’s picture

good point!

felipeduardo’s picture

Brazil is the best choice, because we specialize in caipirinha!!!!

camoa’s picture

Oh my goodness, this is the best argument so far....I love rum cocktails, and as those who know me know, I love mixing cocktails. 

My heart almost faltered, but I am obliged to Bogota since long time ago :)

kadubr’s picture

For the win ;)

isimgt’s picture

For me Colombia is a better place for people from North and Central America, I see Colombia as an excellent venue and good attendance Drupalers. The local community should work hard to promote the event.

My vote for Colombia!

Saulo’s picture

Eu voto no Brasil. Também apoiaria como um dos patrocinadores se fosse em São Paulo.

I vote in Brazil. Also support as a sponsor if it was in Sao Paulo.
 

Solidus_BR’s picture

It would be nice to host the event in São Paulo. Can't see a better chance to get involved with the drupal community!

Rafael Fernandes’s picture

Drupalcon, i wanna you in brazil !

ricardoamaro’s picture

São Paulo FTW!

brunorios1’s picture

Brazil!

johnny_gallo’s picture

São Paulo

camoa’s picture

But please... please be carefull we don't loose the north.

We are looking for the best city so we have attendance from all over latin america and the world.

I invite my clombian friends to avoid just saying "plus one" to Bogota, I believe the DA knows that if you are in Colombia you'll prefer Colombia and if you are in Brazil you will prefer Brazil. The question is, what do the other countries say? 

 

We need your input please. 

 

lnunesbr’s picture

Hey camoatech, I think it's important to heard what the other countries have to say, but above it, is important/essential feel what is the temperature of the local community.

Because above everything, it's up to them to make the DrupalCon happen.

camoa’s picture

Totally true my friend!!!

 

But I am sure that is pretty much a given. Colombian community is ready and Brazilian Community is ready, I have no doubts.

revagomes’s picture

My vote is Brasil!

Here goes a short video about São Paulo that express a tiny little bit of this multicultural city:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpP1crAltys

 

For those that need more information in order to start their plans to come to Brasil here goes a good starting point:

http://www.visitbrasil.com/

They have a really good app in youtube for those that are more visual: www.youtube.com/user/visitbrasil :)

 

Said that, here goes my impression about the discussion.

 

I agree with the benefits of to be as affordable as we can to get the most people as we could at our first DrupalCon in Latino America, but this is not the only point to be considered.

 

To attend to a DrupalCon was always not too easy for most of the people from LATAM and it was never it was the first point to reconsider any DrupalCon until now...

I'm not saying that was the wrong, and I'm not complaining about that. I'm just saying that we must see the event more globally.

 

The most of the people expected at the DrupalCon are the local community, the local Government people, the local business men, right?

 

To be more clear I think we should think in how this event could help us to grow the Drupal ecosystem in Latino America as a whole.

This will be the another step thought this mission that the Drupal communities at Latino America are already in for a long time so we must think what is the best for the Drupal in LATAM.

For the most Drupal Shops in LATAM, to go to Brazil and has the chance to start business here, that has a big market to be filled, would be a huge opportunity. So that's a good point in terms of Drupal business for LATAM as a whole.

I know that Bogota will also give business opportunities but the point is: Brazil has lots of Drupal opportunities already and could be the chance for those who has the skill and capacity to get the job.

 

In terms of people, I'm not sure if we should expect a DrupalCon in Latino America crowded of people from US/EU because the reality is the same for them. We from LATAM know that to go to a DrupalCon there is expensive and has to be planned. I would like to attend DrupalCons but the prices was the point that was one of the problems to me. So if i really wanted to attend I should plan that trip earlier and start to save money for the expenses and for the VISA also.

 

So, the price is a problem but we have a year to prepare ourselves. We must discuss about other topics as well.

 

Anyway, I'm already going to the DrupalCon Latino America 2015 no matter where it will be!

camoa’s picture

Renatoooooooo!!!!

 

Good points, I will add to that.

 

Lets start with what are the needs of the DA? I am assuming not to lose money, of course and develop the community in Latinl America.

What are the needs of the Community? To start developing the Latinl American market, and of course the commuity itself.

I believe that for the first camp, the goal is also diversity, and that is important, maybe the most important part for this DrupalCon IMHO.

 

So then again I call to everyone else to let us know what city is easier for you, so the decision is made more on the good of the Whole Latin Community and not just one Country.

 

Of course, this makes Accesibility, more than affordabilty, a great concern, I believe. Cause that is what is going to bring a variety of attendees. 

 

Since we had so many points in favor of Sao Paulo, just wanted to put some out here. 

It is true all the big companies are in Sao Paulo, or have offices, but the center for "Latin America and the caribbean" is usually Bogota. For examples you can check the offices location in South America for Facebook and Google. They will show Sao Paulo and Bogota. With this I want to note, basically, than everything said about Sao Paulo is true, but it does not mean bogota is way behind.

The only main Office, for sure, that is not bigger or equal in Sao Paulo is PayU Latam. The payment gateway for latin america. Their main offices are located in Bogota, and they are ready for DrupalCon Latino.

Another consideration made was that fact that Aerovía​s del Continente ​​Americano S.A. – Avianca​ has its main hub in Bogota. This allows other south american Countries to fly to Bogota for around $300 to $700 Dollars. Is there an option for Sao Paulo, that will be really interesting. I really don't know.

From the USA, there are many airlines and from Europe, I don't really know right now.

Please, when you think "Local community" for the DrupalCon Latino, think all of Latin America!! Not just Colombia or Brazil.

 

From Colombia I can tell you, we want everyone involved, is us, opening the doors to the rest of the world, and by us I mean the whole region. 

revagomes’s picture

Please, when you think "Local community" for the DrupalCon Latino, think all of Latin America!! Not just Colombia or Brazil.

 

Perfect!

nickvidal’s picture

There is two other important factors that we must consider:

First, we must have strong local case studies that demonstrate the power of Drupal and its adoption in Latin America. Two of the best I can think of are:

- the World Cup 2014: http://www.copa2014.gov.br/en

- the Olympics 2016: http://www.rio2016.com/

Both of these sites were made in Drupal, they are going to have some very big exposure in the coming months, and we must use that to our advantage in marketing Drupal in Latin America.

Second, we must see what's the local support for Drupal, Open Source, and Technology in general. Brazil has a lot of backing not only from the industry, but from the government as well. We have strong well established open source events with thousands of attendees that could be channels for marketing a future DrupalCon in Latin America: 

- FISL (8000 participants),

- Latinoware (4500 participants),

- Consegi (5000 participants), and

- Campus Party (8000 participants).

All the above are Open Source events in Brazil where the Drupal community is already present.

There are many other tech events happening in Brazil:

http://lanyrd.com/places/brazil/

And there is a lot of momentum right now.

The idea is get hold of this momentum and translate it into opportunites for everyone in Latin America and the Drupal community as a whole.

ShadowMonster’s picture

I'm EU citizen but I leave from few years in Brazil, SP, so happy to see this event here. EU citizens do not need any visa you get 3 month turist visa automatically :)

lnunesbr’s picture

Important reminder... no VISA required for Euro zone to get in Brazil.

wfraga’s picture

For Latin America, the event in Sao Paulo is a more interesting option.

edsonsalesjr’s picture

In Brazil, events like Campus Party receiving government sponsorship which greatly reduces costs. Also I think it is easier to get corporate sponsorship, as we see in DrupalCamp sp 2013.
We have needed to enable these sponsorships and our association is able to establish these partnerships contacts.
Another thing, the values ​​of São Paulo are wrong.

camoa’s picture

That is so cool, Campus Party was also a Success in Colombia.

edsonsalesjr’s picture

Yes, but Campus Party Brazil had ~8K "campuseiros" http://www.campus-party.com.br/2014/Edicoes-anteriores.html and Campus Party Colombia ~4K http://www.campus-party.com.co/2013/edicion_2013.html

camoa’s picture

Nice, but the idea wasn't to go "My dad is bigger than yours". Sorry if I made you feel like that.

edsonsalesjr’s picture

Camoatech, It's just an analysis of potential. Nothing personal. Sorry if I was unclear.

dgallinari’s picture

São Paulo can consistently hold an event like this. Think of a country that will hold FIFA World Cup this year (2014) and every year has huge events like the Carnival. We will be much more prepared (in terms of infra-structure) to receive DrupalCon.

 

Go São Paulo!!

flaviotorelli’s picture

I support Sao Paulo, for sure! And you can enjoy one of the most interesting cities of the world.

hernani’s picture

Go Brazil ! Go São Paulo!

icampana’s picture

Even though the idea of going to Brazil is quite tempting, we have to consider not only costs, but also the language limitation, not for the conferences, because I suppose those would be mainly in english, but for moving in the city, the largest spectrum of latin american people speaks spanish as a whole.

Talking about costs, it would be more difficult for us to manage a trip to Brazil for more people from Ecuador, a trip to Colombia is about $300, even buying it at the last time.  But a regular ticket to Brazil could be easily $700 to $800, that's even more than we would pay for a trip to Argentina or USA that are further away.  We would like to take as many people from our company as we can, and that kind of prices would make it more difficult for us to attend to.

Also many companies have its latin american Headquarters located in Colombia, from there they manage their regional decisions and that could open an oportunity for companies using or developing with Drupal in Latin America and not only focused in Brazil.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to go to Brazil, but as for now I see it as a touristic trip and not as a business trip.

lesleyfernandes’s picture

Brazil own a bigger Drupal community than Colombia. It is one of the biggest economies in the world thus It has also a large business community. A lot of countries in in the world are visa free (reciprocity),  check it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visa_requirements_for_Brazilian_citizens  From the 10 biggest economies only US and India visa are requires due the reciprocity politics.

HenriqueRodrigues’s picture

Hello, I am part of the Drupal cumunidade that of Brazil three years and strongly recommend the City of São Paulo - BR to have structure in every way for
this super event that think it's wonderful.
Visual'm disabled, and defend the structure of São Paulo as one of the affordable cities to walk.
Out other points that would not fit here.
Thank you for your attention
Henrique Rodrigues

frubim’s picture

This is just great, regardless of the chosen place. Congrats to all involved in this process.

I cannot make any comments/comparisons on Bogota - just don't know much, although I'd love to go there -  but I can tell for sure Sao Paulo is having a great momentum, not only in the sports world, but also business-wise, open source and IT in general, as mentioned by several people here.

What we want to achieve by bringing DrupalCon to LatinAmerica for the 1st time? I believe we all agree that  we need to bring more awareness, increase adoption, break barriers, debunk the myths, foster the development of new talents, grow the community and generate new businesses around Drupal in the whole region.

 

So nothing better than a city that  already has the whole world watching  it to get that.

 

Again, I believe DrupalCon Bogota can be a success, but I truly believe Sao Paulo  would be a tremendous one. And like Stephanie said, DA is much more prepared now,also  businesses and community in Brazil are much more mature (compared to the 1st attempt)

 

( - I also find some  prices in Sao Paulo odd in that table. They don't seem to be fully accurate and are on the high end, to my knowledge.

- Lastly, we also want our US  friends to come - of course -  but I don't think visa for north americans must be added as a critical decision point for this.  I'm sure with proper time/support, anyone can get the visa )

aldibier’s picture

English

Hi everyone,

I'm very excited reading all your comments in this post, this only meaning that all of us are very interested to be successfull the DrupalCon 2015. In this case we have two good options to analize, remember that this is a discussion healthy and friendly for the Latinamerican community, we are considering a good option for the most  people from another countries not only for us or our country, so I want to put in perspective why from the Colombian community we propose Bogotá as a good option.

 

  • Bogota is a booming, cosmopolitan city with 7.6 million inhabitants, that has gained a strong position as one of the main business hubs in Latin America.
  • Bogota is strategically located in the middle of the Americas, and has excellent air connectivity, with a large number of direct flights to and from the main cities in Latin America, every day. (Bogota is 5 hours away from New York, Mexico City or São Paulo).
  • It is one of the most competitive cities, and with the best environment to do business in Latin America. Bogotá has 286 thousand companies, 29% of all companies in Colombia and  1,400 of them are companies with foreign capital investments. that's meaning opportunities to business.
  • The digital content industry in Colombia is one of the most dynamic in Latin America. Bogotá concentrates about 73% of companies in the sector.
  • Thanks to abundant human talent, infrastructure and quality of an environment for such operations, recognized local and multinational companies have chosen the city as offshore platform to serve international markets, some of them Google, PayU Latam and Facebook.
  • Bogotá’s hotel infrastructure meets even the highest international quality standards. Some prestigious national and international hotel chains include Sheraton, Marriott, Hilton, GHL, Hoteles nh, Hoteles Estelar, Tequendama Crowne Plaze, Royal and Summit.
  • The city also offers 195 meeting and conference rooms located in top hotels and specialized centers, 65 convention centers and auditoriums, as well as a first-class fair grounds that offers a wide range of services and cutting edge technology.
  • A multi-cultural city:  Bogota’s population is the result of diverse population groups, which have made the city increasingly more respectful of ethnic, social, territorial and religious diversity.
  • 5,016 urban parks and 14 wetlands that serve to regulate the water cycle and improve air quality.
  • Exclusive bicycle alternate mobility corridors.

 

¿Drupal?: Yes

  • We have big cases of Drupal Implementation In Media, Goverment, Education and Press.
  • A lot of companies working in Drupal providing services or working in internal projects, many of them very interested to be sponsors.
  • A Drupal community young but with high level skills and two successful Drupalcamps.

 

If you don't know how look bogotá, please take 3 minutes to see this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy-oEhk_r78&list=UUCuxbmHlGQBfaUAhXGp7NCA

 

From the Drupal Colombia community we hope you consider Bogotá as destination for the  DrupalCon Latinoamérica. we are ready to make it a phenomenal experience.

 

Español

Hola a todos,

Estoy muy emocionado de leer todos los comentarios en este post, esto significa que todos estamos muy interesados ​​en la DrupalCon 2015 sea un éxito. En este caso tenemos dos buenas opciones para analizar, recuerde que este es un debate sano y respetuoso para la comunidad latinoamericana, estamos considerando una buena opción para la mayoría de la gente de otros países, no sólo para nosotros o nuestro país, por lo que queremos poner en perspectiva la razón por parte de la comunidad colombiana para proponer a Bogotá como una buena opción.

  • Bogotá es una ciudad pujante , cosmopolita, con 7,6 millones de habitantes , que se ha ganado una sólida posición como uno de los principales centros de negocios en América Latina.
  • Bogotá está ubicado estratégicamente en el centro de las Américas, y tiene una excelente conectividad aérea , con un gran número de vuelos directos desde y hacia las principales ciudades de América Latina , todos los días . (Bogotá está a 5 horas de distancia de Nueva York , Ciudad de México o São Paulo) .
  • Es una de las ciudades más competitivas , y con el mejor ambiente para hacer negocios en América Latina. Bogotá tiene 286 mil empresas , el 29% de todas las empresas en Colombia, 1.400 de ellas son empresas con inversiones de capital extranjero . eso significa oportunidades para los negocios.
  • La industria de contenidos digitales en Colombia es una de las más dinámicas de América Latina. Bogotá concentra cerca del 73 % de las empresas del sector.
  • Gracias al abundante talento humano, infraestructura y calidad de un entorno para este tipo de operaciones , reconocidas empresas locales y multinacionales han elegido la ciudad como plataforma offshore para servir a los mercados internacionales , algunos de ellos Google, PayU Latam y Facebook.
  • La Infraestructura hotelera de Bogotá cumple con las más altas normas de calidad internacionales . Algunas prestigiosas cadenas hoteleras nacionales e internacionales incluyen Sheraton , Marriott , Hilton, GHL , NH Hoteles , Hoteles Estelar , Tequendama Crowne Plaze , Royal y Summit 
  • La ciudad también dispone de 195 salas de reuniones y conferencias ubicadas en los mejores hoteles y centros especializados, 65 centros de convenciones y auditorios , así como un recinto ferial de primera clase que ofrece una amplia gama de servicios y tecnología de punta .
  • Una ciudad multicultural : la población de Bogotá es el resultado de diversos grupos de población, que han hecho de la ciudad cada vez más respetuosa de la diversidad étnica , social, territorial y religiosa.
  • 5016 parques urbanos y 14 humedales que sirven para regular el ciclo del agua y mejorar la calidad del aire .
  • Corredores de movilidad alternativa exclusivos para bicicletas.


¿Drupal?: Si

  • Tenemos grandes casos de implementación Drupal en los medios de comunicación, Gobierno, Educación y Prensa.
  • Una gran cantidad de empresas que trabajan en la prestación de servicios de Drupal o trabajan en proyectos internos, muchos de ellos muy interesados ​​para ser patrocinadores.
  • Una comunidad Drupal joven pero con capacidades de alto nivel y dos Drupalcamps exitosos.

Si aún no sabe como luce Bogotá, por favor tómese 3 minutos para ver este video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy-oEhk_r78&list=UUCuxbmHlGQBfaUAhXGp7NCA

Desde la comunidad de Drupal Colombia esperamos que considere a Bogotá como destino para el DrupalCon Latinoamérica. estamos listos para que sea una experiencia fenomenal.

victorkane’s picture

[español]

Se necesita mejorar el eje del debate, que en vez de estar centrado en la comparación de dos lugares geográficos, debería comparar las dos comunidades Drupal y su trayectoría e idoneidad para ser amfitriones. Ambas comunidades son fuertes, buenos, y parte de la comunidad Drupal de América Latina. Este punto no está presente en la fría lista empresarial que reduce la cuestión al nivel de un foro de trip advisor.

Brasil ha demostrado una y otra vez, e incluso con su participación en el exitoso DrupalPicchu, que es la comunidad que en este momento tiene más para ofrecer. A la vez, será una gran manera de superar la herida abierta de la cancelación anterior.

Un buen DrupalCon en Brasil unificaría como nunca a la comunidad Drupal de America Latina y del mundo entero.

Que el gobierno norteamericano levante las restricciones arbitrarias sobre el libre movimiento de los pueblos en el continente.

[inglés]

I think the debate needs to be corrected, we shouldn't be comparing two geographic places, we should be comparing two Drupal communities, both strong, both good, both part of the single, unified Latin American Drupal Community. This point is totally absent from the cold enterprise list that reduces the question to the level of a trip advisor forum.

Brazil has shown time and time again, including its recent participation in the successful DrupalPicchu, that it is the community that has the most to offer at this time. At the same time it will be a great way to heal the open wound left by the previous cancellation.

A great DrupalCon in Brazil would unify the Drupal community in Latin America and the world over.

The US government should lift all of its arbitrary restrictions upon the free movement of the peoples of this continent.

Victor Kane

http://awebfactory.com

 

alexweber’s picture

:)

jcazotto’s picture

I vote for São Paulo!

xulispa’s picture

+1 São Paulo

edsonsalesjr’s picture

Camoatech, It's just an analysis of potential. Nothing personal. Sorry if I was unclear.

camoa’s picture

No problem, I am just concerned we lose the point. I believe either city will make a great DrupalCon, question is which one will allow the major number of people coming from the outside to create a good environment for a different networking than before.

With all due respect to everyone and from my understanding of the goals and needs of Drupal and businesses in Latin America and the rest of the world, I believe the goal is to have a great variety of people representing business and Drupal enthusiasts.

The goal is not to make money, but that only develops a small part of the region we need every country in latin america represented!
And that is what is important in this post, which one gives everyone the security that they can attend and bring the most people from every country.

rafaelcaceres’s picture

:)

Ericmaster’s picture

I think both cities can do great, and I agree with some that there is a lot of potential in Brazil, larger community, excellent contributions, more business opportunities, etc. But I think that Drupal Con in Latinamerica should also be about diversity and Bogota is more centric and there is a better chance that more people from different countries will attend. If I were to choose, I would go for Colombia, as I think it will be more accesible for everyone in terms of travel costs and probably hotel costs. At the end I think we all want to have a Latin American Drupal Con with all the diversity from Latin America with the most balanced participation from all countries.

In my personal case, just as an example, as being from Ecuador, travel cost will be a lot cheaper if the Con were to happen in Colombia and I won't think twice to attend. If it would happen in Brazil, I would probably go, but I think I would need to check my budget first.

Vendramini’s picture

+1 São Paulo, Brazil!!!!

lnunesbr’s picture

IMPORTANT

With the intent of making this discussion as transparent as possible,
the Brazilian Drupal Association has not only published an Open
Proposal
:

https://groups.drupal.org/node/413458

But now it has also published an Open Letter:

https://groups.drupal.org/node/413838

nickvidal’s picture

This transparency and openness is really important Leandro! I want to thank the whole community for helping to create both of these documents in such a short time frame! It demonstrates a lot of enthusiam and organization!

math3usmartins’s picture

Thank you nickvidal, lnunesbr and everyone else who contributed with these pages!

This is surely a great contribution to help the Drupal Association make the right choice.

BTW I think it's worthy to include these links on the first message.

ricardobeltranl’s picture

I think we need more of this type of documents and proposals!!

phls’s picture

I'm the curator of Free Software stage at Campus Party Brazil (São Paulo) 2013 and 2014, Campus Party Recife 2012, 2013 and 2014.
Every year the Drupal Community participates at Campus Party Brazil with lectures and workshops.
In the last years:
2011 (São Paulo): Conhecendo o Drupal 7
2012 (São Paulo): Drupal: Solução/Framework de CMS para Enterprise
2012 (São Paulo): Introdução ao Drupal
2012 (Recife): Conhecendo o Drupal
2013 (São Paulo): Drupow! - Crie seu próprio portal com Drupal 7
2014 (São Paulo): Desenvolvimento web com CMS Livre

Campus Party Brazil usually happens the end of january/begin of february. I really hope we can have DrupalCon at São Paulo very close to Campus Party Brasil 2015.

sdtorresl’s picture

Indudablemente Bogotá será excelente anfitriona de DrupalCon Latinoamérica, tienen un gran equipo dispuesto a trabajar fuerte en la organzación del evento.

hachesilva’s picture

Bogotá es el lugar en el que quisera que el DrupalCon Latino Amierica tuviera lugar. La ciudad y los organizadores del evento pueden contar con mi apoyo.

tregismoreira’s picture

Definitely, DrupalCon 2015 must to be in São Paulo! Here in Brazil we have a better community, big tech companies using Drupal, better and growing market, better venues... Better all! There's no other city to host the DrupalCon 2015.

Additionaly, we have a high number of federal/governamental institution, specially universities, adopting/using Drupal. It will be an excellent opportunity to multiply the Brazilian community.

#ComeOnDrupalCon ;)

xjkwak’s picture

Español

Ambos lugares propuestos son increíbles, asistiré de igual forma al DrupalCon, sin embargo desde mi punto de vista veo a Brasil con una comunidad mucho más activa, más grande y esto es muy importante para el éxito del evento.

English

Both places proposed are incredible, I will attend to DrupalCon no matter where it is however IMHO Brazil has a more active and bigger comunity and this is very important for the success of the event.

jncruces’s picture

English:

Hi,

Colombia is the best choice.

There are some reasons, the first one is his best place, is the center of America, and it have the best conexions with all the continent, and we can't forget his conexion with another continents.

In the event the most important thing is the persons, the visitors and the business.

- Persons: Colombia has a great Drupal community and some great companies that can help in the event.

- Visitors: The most number of countries in America has spanish as current official language. Most probability of visitors, mayor expectation.

- Business: Colombia has a large investment from companies in all sectors. Drupal is the best choice for all those sectors. We must make known to all those companies that the best choice is Drupal.

 

Español:

Hola,

Colombia es la mejor opción.

Hay varias razones, la primera es su ubicación, es el centro de América y tiene las mejores conexiones con todo el continente y no podemos olvidar sus conexiones con otros continentes.

En un evento las tres cosas más importantes son las personas, los visitantes y las empresas.

- Personas: Colombia tiene una gran comunidad de Drupal y algunas de las mayores empresas que pueden ayudar en el evento.

- Visitantes: El mayor numero de países de América tiene el español como idioma oficial. Mayor probabilidad de visitantes y mayor expectación.

- Empresas: Colombia tiene una gran inversión de compañías en todos los sectores. Drupal es la mejor elección para todos esos sectores. Debemos dar a conocer a todas esas compañías que la mejor elección es  Drupal.

handrus’s picture

- Persons: The same for Brazil... so no point
- Visitors: Yes its more confortable to keep your mother language but Brazilain can understand spanish if you speak a little bit slowly and vice-versa.
- Business: Debatable, but São Paulo wihtout any questions is better for business.

guillenolarte’s picture

Es Un servicio Nosotros gusto párr Anfitriones del DrupalCon 2015, los ESPERAMOS unos amigos TODOS

guillenolarte’s picture

Es un gusto para nosotros, ser anfitriones del DrupalCon 2015, los esperamos

handrus’s picture

So far São Paulo proposal sounds to me much more mature.

Why? Transparency - Look this open letter https://groups.drupal.org/node/413838 and the proposal sent to DA: https://groups.drupal.org/node/413458

I believe Bogotá must do the same for us to have a discussion.

So far what we have (facts and numbers not blah, blah trying to say which city is better)

Pros Bogotá:
Cheaper airflights freom North Hemisphere and border countries.
No VISA problems for USA (yes, only USA for all other countries is equal).

Pros São Paulo:
Cheaper costs - see coments about cost per person
Possibility to be even cheaper without sacrificing the number of atendees and quality (see the open letter)
Better Infrastructure - see DA table saying the quality of the place in Bogotá is still unknow.
Stronger community - see how many things the Brazilian community is making with transparency etc while Colombia is raising just the same comments
Cheaper airflights from South Hemisphere (Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay etc)
The fiscal sponsorship is being held by a association focused in Drupal, not a company. Other companies may feel that investing in it is like investing in the competition.

All about being center of America vs Bigest economical potence is bullshit.

We are comparing a proposal for more than 1000people against one that is 500 people. Seriously?

Please Colombia, open your proposal for the sake of transparency.
 

stephaniet66’s picture

So, please - let's not be defensive in this conversation.  When Holly met with representatives from several countries at DrupalPicchu, it was decided that EITHER Sao Paolo or Bogota would be viable, acceptable locations for the entire Latin American community. 

This isn't a "who is better" discussion.  It is simply a discussion about where we can best produce a successful event for the whole of the Latin American communty.

When we look at all the factors, we feel that Bogota offers us the most chance for a successful event.  It is the easiest and cheapest location to travel to for most of Latin America, it is a less expensive option all the way around...(and we have looked at the budget much more closely than these general statements suggest), and it will allow us to bring in outside speakers, including Dries with less complications.  

We feel both communities are equal in community support and enthusiasm, but stand behind our recommendation for Bogota.

nickvidal’s picture

Hi Stephanie,

I totally agree with you that everyone should be respectful! We need to discuss this in an openly and friendly manner to see where the DrupalCon will create the biggest impact for Latin America and the Drupal community as a whole.

The Brazilian Drupal Association has posted an open proposal and open letter and we believe that this way we'll advance the discussion. Before any final decisions, please consider posting Bogota's proposal and final considerations so we as a community can compare and analyse it carefully.

 

Thank you!

Kind regards,

Nick

 

 

rafaelcichini’s picture

Hi Stephanie,

So can you explain the real reason to start this discussion. When you posted the first message, you opened to discuss what the Drupal Community think about it, but you told your opinion and was so incisive in your opinion and this sound so strange for me.

If you need our opinion we are feel free to discuss and defend our decision. So... not is a decision thinking only in my country, but a smart decision for my opinion.

When DrupalCon tried to happen in Brazil two years ago, was in the same model that Bogota is planning the event. Is one company with comercial interests and this is not sounds good for me or for my company. Not is an imparcial planning.

In Brazil we have an Association, and we are so imparcial, once you can see our board directory... We have employees from diferents companies like my Company Just Digital (sponsor in Drupal Picchu, DrupalCon Austin, Drupal Camp Brasil), and companies that are my competitors here, and we are working together to change the Drupal Community and increase our installed base.

So, again i entered in this page and saw you expressing your particular decision or comite decision, but again this sounds to me like a TOP DOWN decision, not is DEMOCRATIC decision.

We were engaged more than 200 hundred people in Brazil in the last 12 hours to try get the DrupalCon here. So... if you think that cant not change the DA decision, we need to know to move ours iniciatives.

My best regards,

Rafael Cichini
Chief Opperating Officer at Just Digital and Vice-President at ADB - Drupal Association Brazil

rafaelcichini’s picture

Hi Stephanie,

So can you explain the real reason to start this discussion. When you posted the first message, you opened to discuss what the Drupal Community think about it, but you told your opinion and was so incisive in your opinion and this sound so strange for me.

If you need our opinion we are feel free to discuss and defend our decision. So... not is a decision thinking only in my country, but a smart decision for my opinion.
When DrupalCon tried to happen in Brazil two years ago, was in the same model that Bogota is planning the event. Is one company with comercial interests and this is not sounds good for me or for my company. Not is an imparcial planning.

In Brazil we have an Association, and we are so imparcial, once you can see our board directory... We have employees from diferents companies like my Company Just Digital (sponsor in Drupal Picchu, DrupalCon Austin, Drupal Camp Brasil), and companies that are my competitors here, and we are working together to change the Drupal Community and increase our installed base.

So, again i entered in this page and saw you expressing your particular decision or comite decision, but again this sounds to me like a TOP DOWN decision, not is DEMOCRATIC decision.

We were engaged more than 200 hundred people in Brazil in the last 12 hours to try get the DrupalCon here. So... if you think that cant not change the DA decision, we need to know to move ours iniciatives.

My best regards,

Rafael Cichini
Chief Opperating Officer at Just Digital and Vice-President at ADB - Drupal Association Brazil

stephaniet66’s picture

Hi Rafael - Here is how this process has gone...Holly met with members of several countries in Latin America in January, who decided that the event would be best in either Bogota or Sao Paolo.  The participants in that discussion who were from Brazil wanted the event in Brazil, while most of the participants from other Latin American countries, wanted it in Bogota.

We have gathered data from both locations, and the responses associated with this blog post have also provide additional data.  All of this input has come directly from the two communities (Sao Paolo and Bogota).

We, the Drupal Association are making the final decision on location based on the sum of this community feedback, combined with all of the research on both locations we have been gathering.  We feel this has been a VERY collaborative process, and will be making a final decision later this week that will be communicated in another blog post.

Both communities are passionate, committed and have done a great job in stating their cases to come to their cities.  I sincerely hope, that, whichever city we select, everyone will support us in creating a fabulous DrupalCon Latin America.

Very best,

Stephanie Torres

 

danillonunes’s picture

If both cities are suitable locations, I don’t see why there would be a problem with the “what is better” discussion. Sure, both São Paulo and Bogotá will make great events, but the more we can discuss to do a choice between great and GREAT, the better.

My only concern with your comment is that we should avoid digging too deep in the “Better for Latin America” criterion. DrupalCon is a global event when is held in USA and Europe, and that’s the reason why we Brazilians and Colombians are so excited to discuss this topic: We want a global event here too! We want Dries, but we also want webchick, chx, sun, fago, merlinofchaos... We want that unknown guy who contributed with a patch once and live in England, or China, or Canada. We want to be accessible for everyone from Latin America, but we don’t want a latino-only event, because for that we already have great events such as Drupicchu and Drupal Summit Latino.

So please take in consideration not only the points that produces a successful event for the whole of the Latin American community, but the ones that produces a successful event held in Latin America for the whole Drupal World.

--

As a disclaimer: I am Brazilian and I vote for São Paulo, but again my vote is not because is the place where I live, but because I think it’s a better place to host international visitors from everywhere and it can make a GREAT Global DrupalCon.

handrus’s picture

Hi Stephanie, I guess we all want practical answers.

Visa is a "show stoper" concern?
 

Because in costs we already proved São Paulo is cheaper and that we can put this price hugely down (no venue cost at all).
Is it airflights? I saw many comparisons that diverge, how many people we should expect to come fro EU, Noth America and Asia? Could you tell us how many you've had in past Drupal Cons in EU and Australia? (even being just a rought estimation).

 

We want to know why you stand behind your recommendation so we can make arrangements to change that. Given we have just one week of course we would be hard on the comments, proposal etc. We are behind ;)

Yes, we are playing hard but fair. (IMHO)

rafaelcichini’s picture

Posted by rafaelcichini on March 14, 2014 at 6:16pm

Hi Stephanie,

So can you explain the real reason to start this discussion. When you posted the first message, you opened to discuss what the Drupal Community think about it, but you told your opinion and was so incisive in your opinion and this sound so strange for me.

If you need our opinion we are feel free to discuss and defend our decision. So... not is a decision thinking only in my country, but a smart decision for my opinion.
When DrupalCon tried to happen in Brazil two years ago, was in the same model that Bogota is planning the event. Is one company with comercial interests and this is not sounds good for me or for my company. Not is an imparcial planning.

In Brazil we have an Association, and we are so imparcial, once you can see our board directory... We have employees from diferents companies like my Company Just Digital (sponsor in Drupal Picchu, DrupalCon Austin, Drupal Camp Brasil), and companies that are my competitors here, and we are working together to change the Drupal Community and increase our installed base.

So, again i entered in this page and saw you expressing your particular decision or comite decision, but again this sounds to me like a TOP DOWN decision, not is DEMOCRATIC decision.

We were engaged more than 200 hundred people in Brazil in the last 12 hours to try get the DrupalCon here. So... if you think that cant not change the DA decision, we need to know to move ours iniciatives.

My best regards,

Rafael Cichini

stephaniet66’s picture

I take no issue with the feedback that has been provided here.  But when words like "bullshit" are used in an explanation, it is not so cool!

I am only suggesting we keep it friendly and constructive, and not lose the focus of this discussion.

Stephanie

rafaelcichini’s picture

15 hours ---> 210 likes

Real Profiles ----> Only Drupal Customers and Drupal Developers from Brasil

Join Us! 

https://www.facebook.com/drupalconsp2015

We'll be so happy with you can join us!

rafaelcichini’s picture

https://association.drupal.org/content/drupalcon-goes-latin-america-2015...

Hi Stephanie,

So can you explain the real reason to start this discussion. When you posted the first message, you opened to discuss what the Drupal Community think about it, but you told your opinion and was so incisive in your opinion and this sound so strange for me.

If you need our opinion we are feel free to discuss and defend our decision. So... not is a decision thinking only in my country, but a smart decision for my opinion.
When DrupalCon tried to happen in Brazil two years ago, was in the same model that Bogota is planning the event. Is one company with comercial interests and this is not sounds good for me or for my company. Not is an imparcial planning.

In Brazil we have an Association, and we are so imparcial, once you can see our board directory... We have employees from diferents companies like my Company Just Digital (sponsor in Drupal Picchu, DrupalCon Austin, Drupal Camp Brasil), and companies that are my competitors here, and we are working together to change the Drupal Community and increase our installed base.

So, again i entered in this page and saw you expressing your particular decision or comite decision, but again this sounds to me like a TOP DOWN decision, not is DEMOCRATIC decision.

We were engaged more than 200 hundred people in Brazil in the last 12 hours to try get the DrupalCon here. So... if you think that cant not change the DA decision, we need to know to move ours iniciatives.

My best regards,

Rafael Cichini
Chief Opperating Officer at Just Digital and Vice-President at ADB - Drupal Association Brazil

ricardobeltranl’s picture

Rafael,

It seems the decision had already been taken.

I do not know why they opened this phorum, It would be better to "openly say that this was a closed decision" :-)

Regards

R

lnunesbr’s picture

Guys,

I ask you all keep calm and patiance. We need to stay on the track, all this is going to dangerous way.

We are not supposed to be fighting each other, and we are not questioning Drupal Association sovereignty. We may had couple success camps here in Brasil, but Drupal Association has only 7 or 8 years of experience organizing well suceeded Drupalcons around the world.

Fine, I think the debate and the arguments are the natural way to find the chosen city for the DrupalCon Latam, and after this, no matter what is the city, we will have to work together, and make this Con happen.

So, you all, please take it easy.

 

Leandro Nunes --

rafaelcichini’s picture

So, if i sound like a nervous guy, forget, because i'm calm... :)

I wanna know what is possible to do and work on it.

If the event will happen in Bogotá, no problem, but while there is a chance to bring the event to Brazil I want to try. When the final decision is announced i will start to plan how i can involve me and my company to help the event, in Brazil or in Bogotá.

Obviosly if it will be here i can involve my entire team, but probably my company will help in Bogotá to with less involvement.

I sent the message to understand if has a real chance to change and bring the event or we have to conform and change the course of how we involve ourselves in Latam DrupalCon.

I just warned for one point that was a wrong way here in the past. When was tried to do DrupalCon with only one company at front of the event.

Sorry if I seemed to be rude or forceful, my intention was just to understand what is really happening, at what stage we are and what can be done.

*** So... has one problem with comments paginator, and about it my post will posted many times.

Thank you

langelhc’s picture

It's really great have a DrupalCon in LATAM, that's a good news.

In my personal case I have enough with improving my english to attend some english sessions, and I'll feel more confortable staying in a city where I have no problems with the language.

--

Angel Hañari

Perú

lesleyfernandes’s picture

Colombia

  • Individual Members: 2
  • Organization Members: 2

Brazil

  • Individual Members: 20
  • Organization Members: 5

 

 

 

Mithrandire’s picture

Bogotá - Colombia! un placer recibirlos a todos!!

javier_’s picture

I think either Sao Paulo or Bogota will be great locations, both are vibrant cities with very active and involved communities for an event like this to happen.

Said this, there are a couple of inacurancies in the table of above, for instance it's not true that going to Bogota is cheaper since from here, Argentina, it's much cheaper to flight to Sao Paulo than Bogota and the prices are the opposite, it costs 300 dls to go to Sao Paulo and 1000 dls to go to Bogota. So if you are considering the whole region, then it's probably cheaper going to Brazil than Colombia.

The visa is a big inconvenience for those comming from the states but in the end it's the same process, actually much easier, than we latin americans go through for going to the US and that didn't stopped us from going to previous DrupalCons, but I understand that probably more people will go to Colombia since you don't have to go through this bureocracy.

Although I personally prefer Brazil since it's more easy for the southern south americans to go, I'll be probably attending in either location, since in the end the important thing is that's happening.

langelhc’s picture

It's really great have a DrupalCon in LATAM, that's a good news.
In my personal case I have enough with improving my english to attend some english sessions, and I'll feel more confortable staying in a city where I have no problems with the language.
--
Angel Hañari
Perú

aldibier’s picture

Hola,

Les comparto la propuesta que enviamos para postular a Bogotá https://groups.drupal.org/node/413928

Buen fin de semana!

stephaniet66’s picture

I thank you all for such a lively and passionate discusson.  Please feel free to continue to comment through the weekend - and then we will complete this phase of the process.  We will take all of your considersations and comments into account and make a decision on the location for DrupalCon Latin America, 2015 next week - and will let you know what is decided.

We are striving to make the best decision for the whole of Latin America, and hope that whichever city we select, each of you will support the Con!

Thank you again for all your comments.

Note: I have changed the hotel pricing in the original post to more accurately reflect Sao Paolo hotels.  We talked about February, and I originally checked prices for later in February, which is what was originally posted, but then we talked about having the Con earlier in February, right before Carnival in both cities.  So the hotel prices in Sao Paolo are definitely in line with those in Bogota for this period.

 

 

camoa’s picture

Being in the beggining of February, I'll leave this link for reference. (sorry the long URL, it is with filters)

 

http://www.trivago.com/?iPathId=85299&bDispMoreFilter=false&iMemberProfi...

rodrigo panchiniak fernandes’s picture

Considering the current Colombian president, Mr. Juan Manuel Santos, was Defence Minister for the government of Álvaro Uribe Vélez, it is always an open possibility that Colombia offers again the special immunity ("estatuto personal de inmunidades y privilegios diplomáticos") for foreigners. And by "foreigners" I mean everyone but Colombians. So, I think it is best, for the better people, a DrupalCon Latino at Colombia than it would be a DrupalCon Anglo at almost any other place on the Earth. Viva Colombia!

math3usmartins’s picture

Thinking more like a programmer, it seems that we need to set a weight for each desired/required attribute and compare both cities/countries.

IMHO it seems that the DA voted for Colombia mainly because it's easier for Americans to obtain visa or permission, despite the Brazilian community advantage (developers, companies and market).

However we need to know:

- how important is it for the event?

- how many americans should come?

- how many brazilians and latin americans should come?

- what are the chances featured speakers may not be able to attend?

- what are the alternatives if a featured speaker had visa issues? perhaps feature a local speaker or expand the time of another featured speaker?

Answering these questions should help us identify the right city/country.

math3usmartins’s picture

Thinking more like a programmer, it seems that we need to set a weight for each desired/required attribute and compare both cities/countries.

IMHO it seems that the DA voted for Colombia mainly because it's easier for Americans to obtain visa or permission, despite the Brazilian community advantage (developers, companies and market).

However we need to know:

- how important is it for the event?

- how many americans should come?

- how many brazilians and latin americans should come?

- what are the chances featured speakers may not be able to attend?

- what are the alternatives if a featured speaker had visa issues? perhaps feature a local speaker or expand the time of another featured speaker?

Answering these questions should help us identify the right city/country.

camoa’s picture

Great points, I can give you my feelings for that. Not sure how true they are.

Dries promised me that either way he will be in drupalcon Latino, most american companies are really interested in coming to latin america, in general for us (putting on the hat of the Houston drupal user group and adopted Texan) and yes that may be a cowboy hat for those smiling at my comment; the perception about traveling is that is easier to go to Bogota than sao paulo. So on that maybe having prices of air tickets from different places to SaO paulo, I believe the ones to Bogota have been published a couple of times. And just for the openness, is not based in special! Prices, those will be negotiated later, which we hope can make for some discounts. 

Ask told nick, an event was already in the making on Colombia, for this event we already had the support of PayU latam and were working on finding the way to bring Ryan Szrama, who had alreadyexpressed no problem in going to Bogota, given the right conditions.

 

I believe companies like four kitchens, volacci, promet source, and some others are interested on coming to latin america, some of them had expressed their interest personally to me, not because I am something special eh! I just happened to be in the same room and took advantage of that to talk to them about latinoamerica.

So, there is interest inside and outside Latin america, the goal is to put in the same venue the most people we can from south america ( not just Brazil or Colombia) central and north america and of course Europe. So we can have a good business summit and start working in working together to grow drupal and the community and of course, the business opportunities. 

 

Please understand, this is not about Bogota or sao Paulo being a better city, so don't take my post that way. It is about which one I believe has the better numbers to balance everything.

camoa’s picture

It was 4:30 am, the guide told us we will not make it in a bus,so we all decided to walk. We started climbing around 5:00 am, after climbing for one hour, the difficulty of the task ahead was clear. We faced the struggles of two members of our group. Part of the group was too way ahead, but whoever was around gathered to give them support in either decision, continue or stop. For their reasons they decided to go back and do the trip in a later bus, missing the special visit we had in the morning. We stood like friends and support them, Leandro(Brazil) and ariel,(Argentina) went back. The rest of us kept going, but the climb was way far from over, vanessa(Brazil) and victor(Argentina) had some issues. Another group of us decided to stick with them to make sure they were ok, me and vanessa would not be able to communicate, safely is not as easy as we believe to communicate between Spanish and Portuguese, but we made it in the terms of fellow jiu jit su trainees. Victor found his rhythm, molly(USA) And joaquin( mexico) y of course, joao(Brazil) stick with us, as we climbed. Joaquin noticed we were getting late, so he went ahead and inform everyone of the situation, the result? We made it!!! Barely on time! Our group needed to stay together and since part was already moving on under the pressure of time, sebas(Uruguay/Brazil) and Renato(Brazil) were waiting for us to make sure the group got reunited.

 

That is the community that proposed this drupalcon Latino, that is the community that wants to grow and create opportunities together.it is so sad to see a couple of positions showing anything but that, I invite you all to join us in that spirit. 

 

One of the comments I read said that we want people from everywhere, not only dries, but wbchick,chx(did he quit finally to core:( ), and many more, including everyone from other places not so known. That is the success of drupalcon Latino, so far the numbers show one thing. We need to have everyone else to help us know what will be easier for them, so we can make sure they have the best opportunity to go to drupalcon latino.

 

And with all due respect, I will not accept any more implications explicit or implicitt on the veracity of our numbers, we did the  due diligence that was expected. We are not making anything up, and when I say we, I mean everyone involved in this proposals, Aldibier, ivan and me for Colombia. Leandro and nick for Brazil. 

 

handrus’s picture

Sorry if my past comments sounded like I was implicitly doubting the veracity of numbers.

I'm not, never was the intention. All I want to bring up is that the proposals are different and we shouldn't compare them as a one-on-one table.

pmichelazzo’s picture

I was curious about the "big difference" between flight prices that some people are talking about and I made a small research about it. The results are:

From Europe to Bogota

Departure City

Flight Time

Price in US$

Stops

Frankfurt

12h

1370,00

Non-Stop

London

17h

1208,00

IAH

Paris

11:30h

1343,00

Non-Stop

From Europe to São Paulo

Departure City

Flight Time

Price in US$

Stops

Frankfurt

12h

1248,00

Non-Stop

London

17h

1313,00

Non-Stop

Paris

11:30h

1267,00

Non-Stop

From Asia/Africa/Oceania to Bogota

Departure City

Flight Time

Price in US$

Stops

New Delhi

27h

1826,00

FRA

Johannesburg

27h

1682,00

CDG

Sydney

39h

3184,00

LHR - MAD

From Asia/Africa/Oceania to São Paulo

Departure City

Flight Time

Price in US$

Stops

New Delhi

37h

1579,00

MUC

Johannesburg

25h

1053,00

DXB

Sydney

17:40h

1990,00

SCL

From North America to Bogota

Departure City

Flight Time

Price in US$

Stops

Los Angeles

9h

612,00

IAH

New York

5:35h

577,00

Non-Stop

Chicago

9:25h

682,00

IAH

Vancouver

11:30h

756,00

IAH

Toronto

13:45

725,00

IAH

Mexico City

4:35h

793,00

Non-Stop

From North America to São Paulo

Departure City

Flight Time

Price in US$

Stops

Los Angeles

17:15h

1115,00

YYZ

New York

9:20h

811,00

Non-Stop

Chicago

14:35h

1246,00

NYC

Vancouver

22:15h

1071,00

IAH

Toronto

15:40

930,00

IAD

Mexico City

14h

1164,00

IAH

From South America to Bogota

Departure City

Flight Time

Price in US$

Stops

Lima

3h

312,00

Non-Stop

Buenos Aires

16h

573,00

LIM

Assunción

12h

721,00

AGT-GRU

Caracas

2h

656,00

Non-Stop

Montevideo

10h

829,00

LIM

La Paz

3:40h

452,00

Non-Stop

From South America to São Paulo

Departure City

Flight Time

Price in US$

Stops

Lima

34h

529,00

Non-Stop

Buenos Aires

6h

432,00

MVD

Assunción

12h

374,00

Non-Stop

Caracas

10h

840,00

LIM

Montevideo

2h

437,00

Non-Stop

La Paz

6h

727,00

LIM

So, my conclusions are:

  • Flights from Europe are the same in price (with a small down difference to São Paulo)
  • Flights from Asia/Africa/Oceania have a big difference, where São Paulo is cheapest.
  • Flights from North America are cheapest to Bogota
  • Flights from South America are balanced

This is not a accurate research and I don't use any kind of low-fare or "strange" flights. I just use data from Skyscanner.com, choosing the best fare for a trip between Feb 4, 2015 and Feb 11, 2015.

Of course that we can find better prices, conditions and options but IMHO the differences that our friends from Colombia are talking about is not so big, including for the South America fellows.

Regards

pmichelazzo’s picture

I'm sorry for the last post. The editor forget the table format.

I put the tables in a web page here: http://www.michelazzo.com.br/flights.html

Stephanie, if you can, please, edit my last post. Thanks

nickvidal’s picture

Thank you for the data, Paulino! That's very informative.

This goes inline with our Open Letter (https://groups.drupal.org/node/413838):

"Cost of transportation will in fact be higher for those who live in the northern hemisphere. However, Sao Paulo will be cheaper for those who live in the southern hemisphere. Hosting the event in Sao Paulo will open this opportunity to the Drupal community in the southern hemisphere, who have more difficulty attending a DrupalCon in North America and Europe. Additionally, we believe that the geographical center of the host city should not be the most important criteria. Analysing the community center in this region might be more important."

Additionaly, we must understand that the majority of participants WILL HAVE TO come from the local community (this is consistent with the data from past DrupalCons). So having a large community base is important if we are to offset the overall costs of an event like a DrupalCon.

For example, let's suppose our target public is 500 participants.

Bogota may be able to attract 50 participants from North America and Europe, and 50 from Latin America. But how many local participants can it really attract at a $100 ticket price? Can it attract 400 local participants?

Now if Sao Paulo attracts 25 participants from North America and Europe (half of Bogota because of price and visa issues) and the same 50 from Latin America (but now most from the Southern hemisphere), will it be able to attract 475 local participants?

The question here is: which is more realistic based on past DrupalCamp experiences? Colombia attracting 400 local participants or Brazil attracting 475 local participants at a $100 ticket price?

I think having a target public of 500 participants is unrealistic for Colombia, and a doable challenge for Brazil.

This same analysis for attendance should be done for sponsorships, and business opportunities, as well as social impact.

If we were to have a DrupalCon in Colombia, I believe it's wise to bring the expectations down. It would be something similiar to Drupal Summit Latino or DrupalPicchu, but with more speakers from North America and Europe.

However, I believe we should embrace the challenge of doing a DrupalCon in Brazil because it will create a bigger impact, not just for Brazilians, but for Latin Americans, and the Drupal community as a whole. For sure a DrupalCon in Brazil WILL BE MORE EXPENSIVE. But we can see this as an investment. The returns will be higher as well.

It's not an easy challenge and it's a big responsability for us. That's why we need to analyse this carefully.

nickvidal’s picture

Sorry, in my above example, Brazil should attract 425 local participants (not 475).

nickvidal’s picture

Another interesting fact: DrupalPicchu was only able to attract a handful of participants from Mexico, Guatemala, Costa Rica and other countries that are part of Latin America but in the Northern hemisphere. For these regions, the cost of a flight ticket to attend a DrupalCon in North America or a DrupalCamp near or just below the Equator is equivalent, so for most it's more interesting to attend the Drupal in North America.

As for those who live in the Sourthern hemisphere, attending a DrupalCon in North America is extremelly expensive. Those are the ones who are more isolated. Having a DrupalCon in Sao Paulo would really make a difference and would help create a bridge to connect the international Drupal community.

 

handrus’s picture

When people compare cities geographicaly or economicaly this doesn't add any value to the discussion.  What we all need and want to know is if it can host such a large event and where it could generate more impact. In this sense what I see is:

Myth:
Bogotá is cheaper - In a per capta comparison it is not. If we meant that for airflights the south of south america have cheaper prices for São Paulo so anyway this statement lead us to wrong conclusions.

Bogotá Pros:
No visa required for USA citzens

São Paulo Pros:
The venue is 3 times biger
A association as a financial sponsor - Don't get me wrong I'm not saying SeeD is not good just that other can see it as helping the competitor.

 

So does visa problems outnumber a 3 times biger audience posibility? Yes, it maybe can. Would it be a show stoper to bring big presentations?
I don't think so since we have BrazilJS, CampusParty, QCon and many other events that have USA citzens being able to give the main presentations in the last 3 years (at least).

Does any one else see other parctical points?

 

camoa’s picture

That is what I am telling you.... The proposals are pretty much the same, the inference that cost will go up, is a false premise, if anything we made sure to Kepp the highest options, so the end is cheaper but with the same quality.

pmichelazzo, Can you add entral america in that comparisson? thanks!!! that was awesome.

I am envy, I wish that they will come whe 200 dollars difference is not important to me, but that is my particular case, this will allow everyone to make their own decisions.

I had a question, cause I am not sure of this website, any opinions?

 

http://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/comparison/sao-paulo/bogota

ricardobeltranl’s picture

Cost of living in Mexico City is 8% less than Bogota and 38% less than Sao Paulo.

Maybe that would pay the flight ticket 

http://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/comparison/mexico-city/bogota

http://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/comparison/mexico-city/sao-paulo

camoa’s picture

I Believe is good to remember, this event: http://www.eltiempo.com/vida-de-hoy/educacion/ARTICULO-WEB-NEW_NOTA_INTE...

Brought around 1500-1800 attendees, one day tickets between 40 to 125 dollars.

 

 

nickvidal’s picture

2014 Tech events listed on Lanyrd for:

- Brazil: +-18 events (http://lanyrd.com/places/brazil/)

- Colombia: +-1 (http://lanyrd.com/places/colombia)

Some of these are quite expensive, like Qcon Sao Paulo, that costs more than $600 for a 3-day event and have thousands of attendees.

But I believe the objective here is not to compare which country is better, nor which is the cheapest, but rather which can create the biggest impact for Latin America in the Drupal community as a whole.

The Brazilian Drupal community has confirmed a presence in all major open source events in Brazil this 2014, just like we did last year. That's FISL (with 8000 participants), Latinoware (with 4500 participants), Consegi (with 5000 participants), and Campus Party (with 8000 participants). There is also BITS (with 12,000 participants), from the same organizers of CeBIT from Hannover. If we were to host a DrupalCon in Sao Paulo, having these events as marketing venues would be extremely useful. The strong local community is also extremely important. Brazil is a country with epic proportions, so it's not just the community of Sao Paulo that will benefit, but also from all the other states. 

camoa’s picture

Great point of view, food for thought, no doubt.

Nick, Fernando, you guys know the latino communty better than anyone. Is the Drupal Community so developed already to be compared with those events? I mean Fisol had so many people the first time it happened? I have no clue.

Just to put context to those events on the comparisson.

camoa’s picture

Heading to the end of the discussion, I believe we need to listen to the people outside our countries, I invite everyone to read the comments of this people so we can keep this going withhout being a "fierce competition" between cities. But what is better for you, who is coming from other places. drw, brantwynn, dave reid, cellar door, nestor.mata, generaldredneck, lostkangaroo, c3, isimgt, icampana, frubim, victorkane, ericmaster, xjkwak, offenSuse, langelhc, javier_

 

I wantes to address also the different ocassions the case of SeeD as "fiscal sponsor" in the Colombian proposal, While I hear what everyone says and understand where they are coming from, i will say this to my friends in Colombia: If anyone is feeling something like that, that this is an event from your competition, I will beg you to revalue your concepts about community, specially on the sense of the Drupal community.. if we see each other as competition on the context of a DrupalCon, there is something wrong in there!

This event is of the DA, organized by th DA, and for the people involved in Drupal, anyone named or working on either proposal is just helping. Using ur own time and resources as volunteers.

Thanks 

rafaelcichini’s picture

3 weeks ago two guys from Acquia came down to Brazil to do some meetings with me in some customers prospects. We planned the meetings 1 month in advance and they got the VISA without problems.

So... is need to have a VISA? YES!

Is easy to have a VISA? YES!

In my opinion, if Drupal want to expand cover area an explor a very strong market, in my opinion this is not a problem! We'll not be able to change government policies between countries, we have to live with it and do what Drupal grow without these problems.

Use this as an obstacle is a bad thing, because we can not depend on changes in government to do the right thing.

If Acquia came to Brazil to do meetings with me and my customer, i think they can come for DrupalCon too do more for Drupal Latam Community.

Anyone out there think like me?

rafaelcichini’s picture

An important point ... my company has customers in Colombia (Chamber of Commerce of Bogotá , DNP + National Department planeación Colombia) and I can say with property that Bogota is rather a good town, but not the right city for major technology. 

This is not a personal opinion but the opinion of those organizing the biggest technology events. If it was the right place, other major events for the Latino community did not happen in Bogota and Sao Paulo.

If the largest technology events in latin america happen in Brazil, and larger companies choose to come to Sao Paulo there are good reasons. Numerous studies have been made ​​to justify this choice.

It's like making a code without framework and create a CMS from scratch.

We're trying to reinvent the wheel. If the major events choose Brazil (São Paulo), the larger companies choose São Paulo too, there are numerous reasons here and why we can't ignore it trying to find excuses to go against the hand that everyone does?

Think about it...

rafaelcichini’s picture

This is not a personal opinion, but the opinion of those organizing the biggest technology events. If it was the right place, other major events for the Latino community did not happen in Bogota but in São Paulo.

 

rafaelcichini’s picture

This is not a personal opinion, but the opinion of those organizing the biggest technology events. If Bogotá is the right place, why other major events for the Latino community not happen in Bogota but happen in São Paulo.

rafaelcichini’s picture

I'm not saying all DrupalCon should happen in Brazil in Sao Paulo.

The right thing is to run in other cities, but I believe that to give the start in the Latin market, nothing more intelligent to get through the entrance door, which you can start by generating greater visibility.

The chance to be more successful is to start the process by the official gateway to the Latino market.

We can't forget other citys like Santiago-Chile, Bueno Aires-Argentina, Lima-Peru, Rio de Janeiro-Brazil, Medelin-Colombia, Caracas-Venezuela...

But we need to start... and what is the right choice?

 

aldibier’s picture

Hi Everyone,

It's time to incentive the participation from more people from another countries, this discussion is open for Latinamerican community and we have more than 90% of discussion between colombians and brazilians, at this point both communities have exposed arguments, so I think now is time to listen the another people from Community, what do think guys? are you agree?

Remember doesn't matter the final decision, we should work together.

Regards!

rafaelcichini’s picture

I agree, but them don't enter in this discussion. We started one week ago and until today they have not engaged in this discussion :(

It's an open discussion but them doesn't joined us.

camoa’s picture

Check the list I made, that is and interesting sample. Not one single Colombian or Brazilian in there eh! :)

 

And I am sure I missed some.

nickvidal’s picture

Hi everyone,

First of all, I really applaud Colombia's willingness and courage to organize the 1st DrupalCon in Latin America. I really do, because it will take a lot of work. But I worry that the target public that was suggested by the Drupal Association is impossible to reach in Colombia, specially with a ticket price at $100.

Let me tell you about my expectations for DrupalPicchu. This event was proposed in the end of 2012. Drupal in Peru had a pretty good community at that time. Fernando and Nancy are the leading Drupal evangelizers in Latin America and they have worked really hard to spread Drupal in Peru since 2008. By far, Peru is the country that had the most DrupalCamps in Latin America. Also, the 1st Drupal Summit Latino was in Lima. Additionally, Peru is very well located, right in the middle of Latin America, making it easy and cheap to travel. To top it off, Peru is home to the #1 tourist destination in Latin America: Machu Picchu. So the idea was simple, to organize a Drupal event in Cusco so awesome, so attractive, that people from all over the world would travel to. I guess at that time we were really expecting that Americans and Europeans and Latin Americans would embrace the idea and do everything they could to come here. Together with a strong local community, DrupalPicchu would be the best Drupal event ever!

However, that is not exactly what happened. People were really excited about the idea, for sure, but in the end, only a handful of Americans and Europeans showed up (BTW, I really appreciate their presence!). We had a better presence from Latin Americans (as far as I know, it was the most successful meeting we ever had), but even so it was nothing like what we were expecting. Even the local Drupal community from Peru was not as numerous as we thought it was.

But you know what? We didn't have the attendance we hoped for, but it didn't matter. It was such an amazing experience!!! Peru is just so beautiful, and Machu Picchu was such a great adventure! The local community that received us were so kind, and meeting so many friends (old and new) was a real pleasure! It was one of the best events I've ever been to (perhaps even better than DrupalCon Portland), not because of the Drupal talks (which were really great), but because of the rich socializing that happened. It was amazing!

So what's the problem? The problem is that this DrupalCon is going to be really expensive compared to our tradicional events. If we don't have the attendance we hope for this time, we'll not be able to recover the money that was invested. I honestly cannot see Colombia attracting 400 local participants at a $100 ticket price. And I honestly do not expect that many Americans or Europeans will come to the event, no matter how attractive it is, be it in Colombia or Brazil.

The closest Drupal event in Latin America that I've been to that was similar to a DrupalCon was DrupalCamp Sao Paulo. The event was organized in record time, just 6 months after the cancellation of DrupalCon Sao Paulo, and in a delicate moment where nobody believed in the community anymore. But somehow we were able to overcome all odds and throw an excellent DrupalCamp in Sao Paulo with 300 participants from all over Brazil. The majority of the participants were actual Drupal developers, Web professionals, government officials, and entrepreneurs or prospects evaluating Drupal (DrupalCon’s target public). To top it of, the Brazilian Drupal Association was founded. Of course it could have been better organized if we had more time and experience, but it was really professional, and the impact was huge. After this event, the community just exploded! A few months later, we organized a DrupalCamp co-hosted with FISL, the most important open source event in Latin America, and we hit 300 participants again (but this time composed by newbies). We were able for the first time ever to participate in all major open-source events in Brazil. The year of 2013 has been the best year ever for the Brazilian community, much thanks to DrupalCamp Sao Paulo.

So DrupalCamp Sao Paulo was the closest we ever got to a DrupalCon. It's going to take some real community effort now to throw a successful DrupalCon in Latin America, and I confess I lose some sleep over it (I bet many here do as well), but I believe we can do it! A combination of DrupalCamp Sao Paulo, DrupalPicchu, and some special magic will get us there. And I sincerely hope that this DrupalCon will have a major impact not only for Brazil, but for Latin America, and the whole Drupal community.

When discussing a DrupalCon with the Drupal Association, my first suggestion actually was to have it in Mexico. That way it would be easy and cheap for Americans to travel to the event. The Drupal community in Mexico is good, but there is no comparison with the American community, which is way ahead of us, so we need all the help we can get. However, the Drupal Association explained to me that they would rather have the event in South America.

There are so many barriers and so many challenges. The reason why we continue pushing forward is because we believe that this will help grow our community and bring better opportunities for everyone.

Well, if the Colombian community feels that they can succeed, I really hope they can! It's a great responsability. But I'm afraid I feel they cannot pull it off. To be honest with you, I'm not even 100% sure the Brazilian community, as well structure as it is today, will be able to pull it off. So the truth is that, whichever community "wins" the chance to host a DrupalCon, we the Drupal community as a whole will have to help each other and work really hard to make it happen.

Sorry for the long post. I just wanted to share a sincere opinion regarding the future of our community!

Best of luck to everyone!

Kind regards,

Nick

akucharski’s picture

As usual, this is a great and thoughtful post. I've been watching this post and waiting for an opportunity where I can contribute some helpful thoughts.

I also attended DrupalPitchu and I while the event was great, I was concerned with the attendance numbers. We spoke about this and discussed whether it was the difficulty of travel, the distance, the number of hops, etc. I don't think we reached any definitive conclusions.

I can only tell you what I am feeling about these two difficult choices. If the even is held in Bogota, I wish to be a big supporter of the event, and I hope to attend. I think this is your greatest challenge and personally feel that it will be easier for me, and my team, to attend the event in Bogota. We will attend, submit sessions, and will consider sponsorship at some level or another way to contribute. It is simply a decision based on the fact that it is closer to us, it is close to Peru.

I am curious what folks from other northern countries in north america and south america will say about the location and their decision to attend or not attend. That is a big challenge. I think the price point of the conference is an important consideration as well. Either way, we hope that the event surpasses everyone's expectations on quality and attendance. We'll do our best to support and I will try to attend either one, but it's easier for my team if it is in Bogota.

camoa’s picture

Thanks. Definitely the goal is to count with this kind of support. Either way this goes. I hope is understood that the main goal is not huge assistance, which is ideal, but assistance from everywhere. We hope to open Latin america. The whole Latin america to the world.

nickvidal’s picture

Hi Andrew,

It was a real pleasure meeting you! Thank you for your support for Latin America! People like you and Molly help create these bridges connecting the community world-wide. So I really appreciate it!

Kind regards,

Nick

BTW: Good luck with MidCamp!

camoa’s picture

Thanks Nick, I guess?

It is reassuring and not.... Maybe there is a misconception about Colombia in Brazil.

Colombia is not a small country, actually it has been recognized as one of the best places to invest. Bogota is the third city in South America on "Easiness to do business". We have over 7 Million people in Bogota and is a city very similar to New York.

In South America there are, in terms of market, 2 basic sections The spanish world and the portuguese world, one is brazil and is attended, for what I gathered here, from Sao Paulo. But what is call "Latin America and the Caribbean" has been headquartered in Bogota all over my few years of experience.

I appreciate the comment, I just did not want to leave that sensation that Colombia is a little Country.

We admire and respect Brazil, but we are not just the little brother. We know the hard work put into this and the size of the community, which in any case, we know is going to assist. But please, to all, do not underestimate the work of the Colombian team, we are people with a professional background that understands the challenges and the quality and importance of the event. We realize that this is not an event for Colombia, this is an event for the world from Latin America.

We are not just the little brother.

nickvidal’s picture

Yes, I totally agree with you. The same way Brazil is not America's backyard, right?

But I honestly ask you this: do you think Colombia can attract 500 participants for a DrupalCon at $100 ticket price? How?

We have to answer this question looking back at our history as a community. 2013 has been a great year for the Brazilian Drupal community: a) we had a large DrupalCamp in Sao Paulo composed mainly by professionals, b) we founded the Brazilian Drupal Association, and c) we participated in all major open source events in Brazil. I think there's a good chance that we'll succeed in attracting 500 participants, and we are well aware that most participants will have to be local (as shown by data from previous DrupalCons).

I just hope you don't fall in the trap of believing you can attract hundreds of participants from abroad (like I did for DrupalPicchu), because it's not going to happen. You do realize most of the most participants will have to be local, right? But how can you reach 500?

If we agree to host a smaller DrupalCon for 200-250 participants at cheaper prices, then I support to have a DrupalCon in Bogota. Otherwise, I honestly don't think it's viable. Please prove me wrong by showing data from the history of the Colombian Drupal Community.

camoa’s picture

Question, with a 1000 dollar budget, what will a drupalcon attendee need to afford, including living expenses, tourism and the conference? I believe that is the question for everyone outside Colombia and Brazil.

 

http://www.southamericaliving.com/where-in-south-america-can-i-live-on-6...

rafaelcichini’s picture

When we want go for any US event we spend something like a 2,000$ per event. And we need VISA. For one event a week.

Including transportation, hotel, meals and tickets. Not included flights.

To spend one week in São Paulo you can spend much less. Something like a $1,000 ~ $ 1,200.

One day with ----> taxi + hotel + meals (breakfest, lunch and dinner) = $150/day

7 days = $1,050

If we talking about 3 days event... You can consider in your plan $150/day but you can spend much less.

What i explained before, i considered one day in a hotel like Marriot or Holiday Inn in US, using TAXI, eat in good restaurants and drink beer.

You can eat in McDonalds or simple restaurants, can use subway and sleep in a hostel... else you can consider $50/day

If the event will happen in São Paulo, we will build a guide to drive our visitors. And we'll have partners places for hosting  :)

Sometimes in my company receive visitors from abroad and these costs are real. 

 

nickvidal’s picture

For Brazil, I predict the travel costs will be:

- Extremely cheap for about 350 participants from Sao Paulo state,

- An easy investment for about 100 participants from Brazil,

- A mild investment for about 35 participants from the Southern hemisphere,

- A bigger investment for about 10 participants from the Northen hemisphere of Latin America,

- A much larger investment for about 20 participants from other parts of the world.

I wonder what would be the prediction for Colombia. I hope they are not putting faith on having hundreds of participants from abroad, because the travel costs are high. The great majority will have to be local.

ppachas’s picture

Creo que ambas propuestas de sedes son viables para el desarrollo del DrupalCon, sin embargo en esta oportunidad apoyo a COLOMBIA por ser la que ofrece menores costos tanto para la organización como para los participantes. Esto contribuiria a una mayor asistencia de la comunidad latina.

nickvidal’s picture

If we are expecting a total target public of 200-250, then perhaps Colombia is viable. Otherwise I wouldn't put much faith on it.

If that's the case, then that's OK. We just have to work with a budget with 200-250 on mind, otherwise we risk financial trouble.

The cheapest Drupalcon might not guarantee that we will break even, and it's likely the impact in the region will be lower.

camoa’s picture

Nobody brought numbers from Bogota? Please :) wow. Brasil has A very good point there, 150.... Including hotel and three meals, that is not so bad, if its posible. Only concerns I traveling costs there. 

 

Who can do a similar analysis for Bogota? 

camoa’s picture

Nobody brought numbers from Bogota? Please :) wow. Brasil has A very good point there, 150.... Including hotel and three meals, that is not so bad, if its posible. Only concerns I traveling costs there. 

 

Who can do a similar analysis for Bogota? 

alexandreluiz’s picture

Eu apoio São Paulo - Brasil para a DrupalCon 2015!!!!

ibagaby’s picture

Brazil +1

eduardo_azevedo’s picture

Eu apoio São Paulo para a DrupalCon 2015

julitroalves’s picture

Eu apoio a DrupalCon no Brasil!!!! o/

haedmoli’s picture

There are some interesting post and points of view, but as i think, we all know how much the general fees are elevated this times in Brazil; let´s not talk about any internals or politicals (we all have somo of those in Latin America), but the FIFA world cup 2014 and the Olympics 2016 have created a really high prices wave, and this one will not be down untill 2016 as some news and experts talk about.

That said, the Wonderfull Brazil and specially Sao Paulo are some places i would like to go, but for DrupalCon, i will always say Colombia!!

nickvidal’s picture

DrupalCon Sao Paulo is close to reaching 300 Likes in Facebook with just a few days of campaign:

https://www.facebook.com/drupalconsp2015

The Brazilian Drupal Association is already elaborating its marketing strategy for a possible DrupalCon in Brazil:

- Participation in all major open source events in Brazil, with a total of 25,000 participants (FISL, Consegi, Latinoware, Campus Party);

- Creation of marketing material promoting Drupal and showing successful local case studies (e.g. the official World Cup 2014 website is powered by Drupal);

- Creation of a special Brazilian soccer jersey for the Drupal community;

Additionaly, the community is already bringing the quote prices down:

- Catering at US$ 17 per person per day, including breakfast and real food for lunch.

- We are currently negotiating a discount for the proposed venue. BTW, this venue recently won an award as the best large-event venue in Brazil!

- We are studying better flight tickets for groups within and from outside of Brazil with the largest airline in South America (LATAM: Brazilian + Chilean company).

Plus, we started reaching out to potential sponsors from across several markets: Internet, Media, Telecommunications, Cloud, etc.

We are confident that Sao Paulo is the most appropriate city to host DrupalCon because of its potential for higher attendance, higher sponsorships, higher community involvement, higher visibility, and higher impact.

diogo_plta’s picture

São Paulo is more representative for Latim America community, is the largest commercial hub and has more developers, adding cities like Rio, Curitiba, Florianópolis, Recife, Porto Alegre. No doubt, not because I live in Brazil/Recife, my vote is for São Paulo.

develCuy’s picture

(english below)

Español

Mis más sinceras disculpas al Directorio y Personal de la Drupal Association, y a los miembros de la comunidad internacional de Drupal.

 

La comunidad de Drupal es conocida por la pasión de su gente, pero la comunidad de Drupal Latino es totalmente pasión, muy seriamente, está en nuestro ADN.

 

Admito que en esta discusión hay algunos comentarios que cruzan la linea de la amistad y la fraternidad. No quisiera que piensen que la comunidad de Drupal Latino es una especie de "olla de grillos", por favor disculpenos por las grocerías, los excesos y las agresiones vistas en esta discusión.

 

El problema raíz es que somos una comunidad muy grande en muchas formas:

  • 20 países en 3 sub-continentes: América del Sur, América Central y el Caribe, América del Norte
  • 5,000 años de historia cultural
  • 21,069,501 km2
  • 589,018,078 personas
  • 9 idiomas principales: Español, Portugués, Quechua, Lenguajes Maya, Guaraní, Francés, Aymara, Nahuatl e Italiano.

 

Tenemos más diferencias que puntos en común, pero estamos aprendiendo a trabajar juntos y a unir visiones para un futuro en común. Nos acabamos de dar cuenta que un futuro solos no es tan emocionante y prometedor como un futuro que sólo podemos alcanzar juntos.

 

Como un verdadero gesto de respeto a la Comunidad Internacional de Drupal, a la Comunidad Drupal Latino y a nuestras propias comunidades locales, he decidido de manera voluntaria el reservame de hacer futuros comentarios acerca de este tema. Dejaré que la Drupal Association se tome tiempo y decida.

 

¡ La pelea se acabó !

 

P.D: Toma un minuto para mirar este video del Argentino-Brasileño: Dante Ramon Ledesma,  cantando "América Latina" en Portugués: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8P26FnNjzo

 

English

 

My most sincere apologize to the Board and Staff of Drupal Association, and the members of the international Drupal community.

 

The Drupal community is know by the passion of its people, but the Drupal Latino community is all about passion, so seriously, it is in our DNA. I admit that in this thread there are comments that cross the line of friendliness and fraternity.

 

Won't like you to think that Drupalcon Latino community is a kind of "madhouse", please excuse the strong language, redundance and aggressions seen in this thread.

 

The root problem is that we are a big community in several ways:

  • 20 countries in 3 sub-continents: South America, Central America and the Caribbean, and North America
  • 5,000 years of cultural history
  • 21,069,501 km2
  • 589,018,078 people
  • 9 main languages: Spanish, Portuguese, Quechua, Mayan languages, Guaraní, French, Aymara, Nahuatl and Italian.

 

We have more differences than points in common, but we are learning to work together and to join visions for a common future. We are just realizing that a future alone is not as exciting and promising as a future that we can only achieve together.

 

As a true sign of respect to the International Drupal Community, to the Drupal Latino community and to our own local communities, I voluntarily decide to reserve any future comment regarding this topic. Will let the Drupal Association to take its time and decide.

 

The flight is over !

 

P.S: Take a minute to watch this video by Argentinean-Brazilean singer: Dante Ramon Ledesma, singing "América Latina" in Portuguese: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8P26FnNjzo

nickvidal’s picture

Hi Fernando,

We are not fighting. We are just discussing this important matter in an openly manner. I do agree a minority has crossed the line on this thread, but I think most have been respectful. Me and Leandro explicitly told the community NOT to bring Colombia down, but to respect them and argue why Sao Paulo should host a DrupalCon. It might seem a bit confusing, for sure, but this open dissussion is healthy and promotes transparency. Now we know each others' proposals and we can analyse the pros and cons.

I do think Latin Americans share many things in common, including the passion you've mentioned. Thanks to the Drupal Summit Latinos, we have never been so united, and I hope to greet my fellow Colombian friends at the next DrupalCon, wherever that might be!

Kind regards,

Nick

math3usmartins’s picture

I like statistics :D

There are ~ 230 comments on this post now, and I feel like only 5 comments can be considered aggressive.

I'm not saying it's right, or reasonable or acceptable, but it shouldn't stop us from sharing our ideas and keep posting comments.

I think that contributing with ideas and comments should be considered part of the work to make a succesful DrupalCon no matter where it goes. And dealing with inadequate comments or different views/culture is part of that work.

So please review your position and keep contributing. We need people like you.

fadonascimento’s picture

Eu apoio São Paulo para a DrupalCon 2015

ricardobeltranl’s picture

Dear Drupal Association,

With all my respect I think this discussion has very poor parameters, I think we should extend the discussion and see more than "Hotel price" or "Internet cost" as well as more people and their opinions. I think you should add Mexico and Mexico City as a third option to organize the Drupal Con 2015, I think we have some important advantages, if I am wrong  at least the discussion will get richer.

Please if you think Mexico should be considered as a host for the Drupal Con 2015 attach your comments to this post, if not make your point against or in favor of your favorite location,  lets descentralized the discussion: 

In my humble opinion

Ricardo Beltrán

President of the Organisation Comitte at Drupal Camp Mexico City

http://drupalcamp.mx

 

 

 

 

 

nickvidal’s picture

Hi Ricardo,

Mexico was in fact my first suggestion as a host for DrupalCon Latin America. No doubt about it Mexico has a strong Drupal community, and it offers the cheapest travel cost for Americans, which is the strongest Drupal community by far.

But this advantage plays both ways: Mexicans are lucky because they have the opportunity to experience a DrupalCon every year, since a DrupalCon in the States is so close and affordable to go to.

So having a DrupalCon in South America, as the Drupal Association intends to, is in fact more inclusive, because it will allow the community in the South to be part of a DrupalCon. This chart from Matheus (http://goo.gl/iq6uWj) illustrates that the Brazilian and the Argentinean community, which makes up 50% of developers in Latin America, will have this opportunity for the first time if a DrupalCon were to happen in Sao Paulo.

Kind regards,

Nick

ricardobeltranl’s picture

Hi Nick,

I think that graph show that more people from Argentina and Brazil have a Linked In Account with the word Drupal. That's it. I could not say that is equivalent to Drupal Developers by Country and I think we should acquire better sources and bring more parameters to the discussion since that will benefit all of us. Even though if we accept the data as valid I would say that you might want to bring a DrupalCon where you could have a bigger impact and bring more new people to the global Drupal communnity, that's why you are trying to bring a DrupalCon to Latinamerica, don't you?

I just want to add Mexico as a third option and discuss the pros and cons in a broader table with more parameters to consider, if so any result will have strongest support a by all the LatAm communnity, if not it seems like a closed decision among just few people.

 For example a quick research  of flight prices I've found  no significative difference between Mexico and Sao Paulo if you add Central America countries in the analysis,  Mexico city is a very highly demanded destination and flight tickets prices has more to do with offer and demand than distance.

In Mexico we have a say, "So far from God and so close to the USA". This time I thought being  near USA should had operated in favor not against since there are many good Drupal agencies in USA and many cheap flights without visa hassles for them.  

If this was not good for everybody then why are we discussing using English?

Simple, I am using English because I do not speak Portuguese (sighs! I whish I could :-( )  and I want people from Brazil to understand what I am saying, and English has become the "lingua franca" when speaking about technology (and many other topics) and I know they will understand, but I'm still Mexican. Therefore I think that being so close to the USA should not be an argument to exclude Mexico from the Drupal Con list.

However I  think we need deeper research and further discussion but first please

Add Mexico to the DrupalCon list!!!! :-)

Best regards!!!

Ricardo

 

 

 

nickvidal’s picture

Whatever the decision, I recommend that the Mexican community continue this effort of creating a bridge between the US and Latin America, as you all are currently doing with DrupalCamp Mexico. Also, the next DrupalCon North America has never been so close to the border. It would be really cool if we had a big Latin American presence in DrupalCon Austin!

math3usmartins’s picture

"I think that graph shows that more people from Argentina and Brazil have a LinkedIn Account with the word Drupal."

You can't simply ignore these values. Actually it should be close to real values. See, how many drupal developers you know without a profile on LinkedIn? Or how many didn't enter "drupal" on their profile. It includes eveything, previous experience, current position, skills etc. Answer that question and you'll know how many developers you are missing.

Of course it's still not 100% accurate, but is there a better way to find/estimate the number of Drupal developers for every country from latin america?

The report/chart above shows that Brazil/Sao Paulo can benefit a lot of latin americans, perhaps most of us, especially if you include those from Chile and Uruguay -- they are much closer to Brazil than Mexico and Colombia, and it actually matters in terms of costs, not to mention the time to fly between these locations. 

And, if the goal is to spread Drupal over the world, I think it's better to go *far away* from USA -- unfortunately for Mexico. Agreed? Mexico has ~ 120M people. If you compare that to south america, you'll see where you can have a greater impact.

IMHO it's clear that a DrupalCon on Mexico would basically benefit Mexicans and USA citizens -- and keep most latin americans out, once again.

That's my opinion. Honestly I don't think Mexico is a good location for most latin americans. But if we don't care about that, then Mexico is a good option.

math3usmartins’s picture

The report/chart above shows that Brazil/Sao Paulo can benefit a lot of latin americans, perhaps most of us, especially if you include those from Argentina, Chile and Uruguay -- they are much closer to Brazil than Mexico and Colombia, and it actually matters in terms of costs, not to mention the time to fly between these locations.

ricardobeltranl’s picture

"That's my opinion. Honestly I don't think Mexico is a good location for most latin americans. But if we don't care about that, then Mexico is a good option."

Yep, indeed that's your opinion, I am just saying that we should bring more people and more parameters to this discussion in order to build concensus and add Mexico to the list or any other country you like, What's the problem with that petition????

If the argument is just to go "Far away from USA" you are saying that Mexico is not a suitable location and will never be, because we'll always be "near to USA" and we cannot change that.

To exclude Mexico with that aregument es equivalente to say "Mexico should never host a DrupalCon" and I completely disagree with that position. 

But let's hear more voices!!! Why not?

math3usmartins’s picture

To exclude Mexico with that aregument es equivalente to say "Mexico should never host a DrupalCon" and I completely disagree with that position.

Not really. My concern is only related to spreading Drupal over the world, thus *far away* from USA -- and MX *unfortunately*.

This condition may change within a few years.

Moreover, it's mentioned on the original post:

"This was a fantastic meeting, with several countries represented, and it was there [Drupal Picchu] that São Paulo, Brazil and Bogota, Colombia were selected as the two top choices to hold this event."

jackbravo’s picture

Probably my fellow mexicans will yell me "culeeeeero" for this =P.

Sadly I would have to agree with Nick, Holly and the Drupal Association. I think Mexico is a second option for a DrupalCon Latino. Since what we are trying to acomplish is to get as many latinos, from as many latin american countries as possible, then Mexico is in a bad position for a first DrupalCon Latino. I wouldn't discard it as an option for a second DrupalCon Latino, or even for hosting a North American DrupalCon (I think Mexico would attract more people and from more countries than Canada ;-).

I think Brazil would be the first option if what we want is more Latin American attendance is general numbers. And Colombia would be first option if what we want if more number of latin american countries. And I guess the association needs to make his decision based on that. After the first DrupalCon Latino takes place, I think Mexico is in the best position to hold a DrupalCon. And we need to keep working like we have with the Drupal Summiit Latino in Guadalajara, the DrupalCamp Mexico in Puebla and the next DrupalCamp.mx which I think is gonna be great.

And last, but not least. Linked-in is not a good source. Better look at the drupal.org numbers. This data is a little old (2008), but still, is more representative of the community size than the linked-in data: http://buytaert.net/drupal-org-country-demographics. And Mexico comes second after Brazil in Latin America ;-).

Also worth noticing that spanish is the second most downloaded translation after germany (again 2008): http://www.knaddison.com/drupal/drupal-download-statistics-january-2008-... So a DrupalCon Latino is a big deal.

math3usmartins’s picture

Unfortunately I can't agree that this 6 years old report is more accurate than the one generated with LinkedIn data.

Moreover, there are only 3 LATAM countries on that report from Dries... and again, it's outdated.

I'm sorry, that report doesn't help anymore.

math3usmartins’s picture

But, I think it's a good idea to ask for an updated report from Drupal.org .

jackbravo’s picture

That there are only 3 countries in that report doesn't mean that other countries were not there, just that they were very little. In 2008 DevelCuy was already a member on drupal.org, but Peru probably just had too few users registered on drupal.org to be valid. Of course having more recent data would be much more useful, but don't ignore drupal.org data just because of age.

Another data would be how many members each country has on groups.drupal.org. Mexico has around 250, Colombia 270, Peru ???, Argentina around 500, Brazil around 1400.

Another data would be size of past drupal events. DrupalCamp MX Puebla 500, DrupalCamp Sao Paulo 300, DrupalSummit Cusco 250?, any recent events in Argentina? How many in last event in DrupalCamp Cartagena?

Number of companies registered on the drupal association would be another good data. Sadly this pge is not working correctly for me for some reason: https://association.drupal.org/membership/organizations?country=1010

That would be meaningful data. Linked-in is useful too, but I think drupal.org, groups.drupal.org and drupal camps are more meaningful.

jackbravo’s picture

400 in groups.drupal.org/peru

math3usmartins’s picture

That's great. Because according to LinkedIn there are 404 from Peru: http://goo.gl/iq6uWj

math3usmartins’s picture

AFAIK the public directory of individual members and organizations shows only those who contributed with money.

And I also had issues trying to filter by country. It seems there's a cache that doesn't respect the filter.

I think it's a good source to see community engagement per country, but it's clear that many developers do not contribute. I contributed just a few days ago. But I've been working with drupal for almost 6 years now. I think DA can easily increase contributions simply by using social networks like twitter and facebook in addition to drupal.org.

But I really think we need to help DA find a proper way to estimate the number of developers per country. Maybe they can just release an updated report, using the same source that Dries used in 2008.

Regards,

ricardobeltranl’s picture

I see that some data does not correlates and we need deeper analysis on what really matters?

http://drupalcamp.mx/ 2014 has 17 international speakers from USA, Central America, South America and Europe and counting!!!

I am not sure that people will not come because we are too far, actually we've realized that Mexico is an excellent option for Central America developers that cannot afford to attend to a drupalcamp at USA nor SouthAmerica.

Please Drupal Association!

It would be better to invest one month with a campaign among Drupalists and make a complete analysis adding maybe two or three  options to the list (e.g. Buenos Aires, Mexico city, San Jose de Costa Rica) than making a quick and isolated decision. It will help you to grow awareness of DrupalCon Latino more than any other mean.

 

ricardobeltranl’s picture

But we should realize that we are just a very small sample of the communnity, as well as our opinions are.

What I insist is that having an open discussion with more options, more parameters, more people and an open campaign will bring awareness and approvance, not the opossite, we should not be afraid about open debate with the rest of the world.

Delaying the decision and adding more options will be a good investment in transparency  

Competition will make all of us better!

 

 

 

nickvidal’s picture

An open discussion has been happening since 2009/2010 here at g.d.o. and during the 4 consecutive Drupal Summit Latinos (one of these was in Mexico, btw).

The truth is that Latin America is a continent with epic dimensions. Roughly, the US, Brazil, and European Union are about the same size. Latin America is twice as big. A trip from Mexico City to Buenos Aires is 7,400 km (4,500 miles). For comparison, a trip from New York to London is 5,600 km (3,500 miles).

No matter how you look at it, basically you are going to arrive at the following conclusion:

1) The closer you are to the US, the easier it is to bring "international"/american speakers. Example: Mexico City.

2) The closer you are to the equator, the cheaper the flights from Latin America as a whole, and thus the greater the diversity of attendees. Example: Lima and Bogota.

3) The closer you are to the south, the bigger the user base. Example: Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires.

So these are the real choices that we (and the D.A.) face when selecting a venue for a Drupal event in Latin America.

The Southern region is the most isolated, so the Brazilian Drupal Association has a major role to play here. We've already been inviting speakers from other countries to present here, but Brazil itself is a continental country, so there is the further challenge of bringing people from the several regions within the country together. I think we have succeed in accomplishing this in 2013, but there is still a long way to go.

ricardobeltranl’s picture

If price is important then Mexico is better option please add all costs not only th flight ticket:

http://www.priceoftravel.com/2100/south-and-central-american-backpacker-...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/10/cheapest-backpacking-cities-sou...

 

 

 

nickvidal’s picture

I'm curious to hear how Mexico is the best option cost-wise, considering that the great majority of Drupal developers in Latin America live in the extreme south, the farthest away from Mexico! :)

jmolivas’s picture

Based on the argument Mexico is too close to USA and using this to discard our Country as option for the location, then this event must be called Drupalcon SouthAmerica and not DrupalCon Latino.

Con base en el argumento de México está muy cerca de EE.UU. y utilizarlo para descartar a nuestro país como opción para la ubicación, entonces este evento debería ser llamado Drupalcon Sudamérica y no DrupalCon Latino.

camoa’s picture

Nick, Don't burn those answers, Lets just wait what the DA will say about this. I believe that teh work done from everyone e\i Drupal latino is what broght this to the table. You don't need to justify that, there is a reason why this 2 cities are the options and is not a random pick but years of work of everyone of you. 

 

That is what is important.

vacho’s picture

Español

Ahora empezaremos a plantear porque no Mexico DF o Buenos Aires o Lima o cualquier otra capital... si hemos de considerar una nueva ciudad consideremos cada capital latina donde hay drupaleros que quiera apoyar un drupalcon... asi tenemos indicadores de cada uno.

Pero más allá eso sería desconocer reuniones previas donde se había convenido que Sao Paulo o Bogota.
Tenemos problemas de liderazgo en latino america?

Lo más sano es que la DA tome una decisión y la publique pronto ya sea incluyendo a otras capitales en el análisis o no.

 

English

Now begin the discussion because Mexico City or Buenos Aires or Lima or any other capital ... if we consider a new city, we need consider every Latin America capital where Drupalers want to support a Drupalcon ... so we indicators each.

But beyond that would be to ignore previous meetings where they had agreed to Sao Paulo or Bogota
We have leadership problems in latin america?.
 
The healthiest thing is that the Drupal Asociation makes a decision and publish soon including other capitals in the analysis or not.

ricardobeltranl’s picture

"Now begin the discussion because Mexico City or Buenos Aires or Lima or any other capital ... if we consider a new city, we need consider every Latin America capital where Drupalers want to support a Drupalcon ... so we indicators each"

Why not? Excellent idea!!

Of course there will be only one city selected  and the rest of the community should sitck with it and support it, but quite frankly it won't hurt if Drupal Association further explain the rationale behind the decision and hear more opinions within a more ample phrorum. I just do not get why does it hurt anyone?

We have leadership problems in latin america?

Not at all! I will support any decision the communnity supports. But and I do not see the point of a 20 people phorum trying to extrapolate their opinions to "the Drupal communnity" "LatinAmerica" "People from Brazil and Colombia"

We are just few Drupalers trying to bring  DrupalCon to our contries. So do I !

Let's bring the discussion to more people and more cities!! It won't hurt! Really!   

camoa’s picture

This is a common effort... not just one country, but one big community. This is not the time to argue what not. This is the time to work united.

The Colombian Community and the Brazilian Community as partners in this adventure want to inform everyone that we are going to work together, us and everyone else, for the success of this DrupalCon Latino.

Mind that we are calling this DrupalCon Latino, not DrupalCon Bogota or Sao Paulo, that is the spirit and wherever the DA goes with their decision, we will trust their reasons and we will work together to make this DrupalCon Latino a complete success.
Nick, Leandro, Aldibier and Me and the rest of the 2 core organizing groups, if that could be the name, had agreed that the discussion we were having was not conducting to the wellness of the latin american community and we decided to wait and see, and wherever the decision takes us we will go as a whole and greet the whole world as one big and strong community.
We invite everyone to start thinking in ways you can help to make this a success, the best thing right now is Start saving!!!!! DrupalCon Latino is a GO! whether is Bogota or Sao Paulo, plan to attend!

nickvidal’s picture

We stand behind what you say Carlos: this is a common effort, not just one country, but one big community!

A source of inspiration has been the Bolivian community, who stepped up to help organize DrupalPicchu in Peru!

Wherever DrupalCon Latin American happens, we stand together as one!

ricardobeltranl’s picture

Why everybody here speaks in plural?

I just happen to be the organiser of Drupal Camp Mexico City, that's it. 

I do not represent "The Drupal Mexican Community", people represent themselves really well.

I would support and attend to any venue where DrupalCon Latino is held.

Hopefully the rest of the Latin Drupalers do the same, if more people is heard more people will support the final decision.

math3usmartins’s picture

RIGHT. Another question regarding flights and prices.

Colombia: Less expensive for most of Latin Americans to get to - $300 - $600 flight

Unfortuantely it seems these values aren't right for MOST drupalers from latin america considering that ~ 60% live in Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay or Chile.

I personally quoted some prices using pricelines.com and skyscanner.com within the first two weeks -- from Feb/04 to Feb/11 and from Feb/04 to Feb/07.

RESULT: For ~ 60% of all drupalers living in LATAM, Sao Paulo is cheaper than Bogota.

From Argentina to Bogota, the range is between  600 and 2100 (USD).

And for those from Chile to Bogota, the range is between 700 AND 980 USD.

That's really far from the 300-600 range mentioned on the original post.

Finally, according to my findings, I must inform the Drupal Association and everyone must be aware that if the event goes to Bogota, then it will probably be much harder to bring most drupalers from LATAM.

I'm fine if  no one really care about my findings. But I felt it was necessary to share it.

Best regards,

math3usmartins’s picture

VISA - BRAZIL

If the issue with visa requirement is so critical, then why did DA consider including Brazil? It's no news that Brazil requires a visa from US citizens.

VISA - CHINA AND INDIA

If visa requirement is so critical, what are the plans and the chances for countries like India and China?

PS. Both China and India require visa from US citizens:

INDIA
http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country/india.html
All U.S. citizens need a valid passport and valid Indian visa to enter and exit India for any purpose...

CHINA
http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country/china.html
To enter China, you need a visa as well as six months' validity remaining on your passport.  If you do not have a valid passport and the appropriate Chinese visa, you will not be allowed to enter China, you will be fined, and you will be subject to immediate deportation....

rafaelcichini’s picture

Links to help understanding the process for VISA.

http://houston.itamaraty.gov.br/en-us/applying_for_a_visa.xml

http://www.wikihow.com/Obtain-a-Visa-for-Brazil

In my opinion, if the event will be announced this week is more than enough time to plan the VISA. We're talking about 11 months. I don't know any case that this process took more than 3 months.

math3usmartins’s picture

Some questions still pending answers though.

ricardobeltranl’s picture

Enhorabuena!!!

Good luck with the DrupalCon, I'm one of the organizers of Drupal Camp Mexico City and we'll be the next Drupalcamp happenning in the region.

Please keep in touch with me to a have a simulcast at one of our  key session to make this announcemnent!!!

Regards

Ricardo

GuilhermePuentes’s picture

Eu apoio São Paulo para a DrupalCon 2015.
http://drupal-br.org/a-drupalcon-sao-paulo-precisa-de-voce

Será uma ótima oportunidade para a divulgar a ferramenta em nosso país.
Pois algumas empresas disconhecem o poder do DRUPAL.
Temos excelentes profissionais aqui e será uma forma de manter e criarmos novas oportunidades de emprego em nosso país.

<hr>

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I Support Sao Paulo for DrupalCon 2015.
http://drupal-br.org/a-drupalcon-sao-paulo-precisa-de-voce

It will be a great opportunity to promote the tool in our country.
For some companies disconhecem the power of Drupal.
We have excellent professionals here and it will be a way to maintain and create new jobs in our country.

juanp.rey.z’s picture

I think that Brasil after FIFA 2014 World Cup need to get some rest ... come to Bogota!!!

Regards

Juan P Rey

 

kriacao’s picture

Eu apoio São Paulo!

Shanza Rehman’s picture

Greetings! Very helpful advice within this post! It is the little changes which will make the most important changes. Thanks for sharing!